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Creating a robust WiFi Network in large radio unfriendly house - expert advice welcomed
Hiya
I have run a home network comprising 5 Netgear routers (Used as Wireless AP/Hub) with about 8 wired Ethernet points. The WiFi network is very important to us in all areas of what is a fairly large home. The house is very old however and also has some barriers to good wireless tranmission such as foil backed insulation.
For this reason we have placed additional routers (as wireless access points) in various locations around the house all connected to the same ethernet network. The main router receives an ADSL Internet connection and has DHCP enabled, the subordinate routers are each connected to the network by one of the distributed network ethernet ports with DHCP disabled. Each wireless network has 2.4G & 5G enabled with different SSID and I have tried to keep the channels as distinct as possible to avoid conflicts. The mode(speed) on each channel has been set to the highest available on each router (In the absence of any better knowledge!!)
NB Each router is also used to hard connect smart TVs and other devices where they are located so are NOT just used as a wireless access point.
The routers used are N300 (DGN3500) (Main - ADSL/DHCP) DGND4000 x 2
N600 (WNDR3700)
D6400
All firmware is updated to latest versions.
NB The D6400 was bought as a replacement main router for the N300 but proved unstable with various crashing issues. The configuration above works better but still has odd problems as listed below.
Main router becomes unreachable on the network about once per week. Network continues to run, usually slowly. But cannot access interface on 192.168.1.1. A hard reboot is the only option
Intermittantly get "Waiting for IP" errors or "IP Configuration failure" on peripherals (mobile phones/tablets attempting to connect to wireless network. This is with different devices and occurs on two of the wireless routers but not all.
Questions
Are there any obvious incompatibilities with what I have done - is there a better more robust way of achieving the same thing? NB I don't just need wireless access points as other peripherals (Smart TVs, Servers, Media players etc) are hardwired to each router
Are the routers I am using a compatible set? I do like Netgear kit - what would people recommend? Would having all same devices be better?
Is it fine to have 2.4G & 5G enabled on all routers? Am I better to select just one or other?
What mode (speed) setting should I select for each wifi network - currently it is set to the highest available speed (different on each router). Am I better to go for lower speed - of even consistancy across routers?
Anyhow, all advice welcomed and please feel free to ask if I have missed any salient points
Re: Creating a robust WiFi Network in large radio unfriendly house - expert advice welcomed
There should be no issues with using both 2.4 & 5. These two frequencies do not interfere with each other. Using the fastest mode possible. Seldomly, you may have to downgrade the mode if have an older device.
Within a frequency band, each AP should use a separate, non-overlapping channel. At 2.4 GHz, this means using channels 1, 6 and 11. Do the same for 5 GHz. If two APs must use the same channel, put as much distance as possible between them.
Do not use overlapping channels, like 1 and 2. This is the worst case scenario for Wi-Fi between each channel will perceive the other channel as noise, which can significantly impact speeds. It's actually better to use the same channel because devices can politely coordinate with each other to use the channel. This is an excellent explanation that is fairly easy to understand.
Re: Creating a robust WiFi Network in large radio unfriendly house - expert advice welcomed
Thanks for reply and good to know that the overall premise is fine.
The system tends to run fine for a week or so and is heavily used by myself and 3-4 other users playing games, streaming TV or just connecting/disconnecting tablets and mobile phones.
Then yes, the system will seem to go slow and almost always the main router will be unreachable. The other routers are normally fine and in general there is still full network connectivity and at least some internet access albeit slow. A hard reboot sorts the issue.
The issue of failure to allocate IP addresses may be unrelated but also seems to be cured by a reboot of the main router.
I'm aware that I am using the oldest and cheapest router as the main one - is it possible it can't keep up or is in some other way incompatible with the newer routers?
I'd be happy to use a network sniffer to look for problems - any products you can recommend? Any tips on what I should be looking for would also be useful? I'm reasonably technical but as you may guess not a network specialist.
Re: Creating a robust WiFi Network in large radio unfriendly house - expert advice welcomed
If a hard reboot cures everything, then it's probably the router. It's not so much that it can't keep up but more like a bug that takes a long time to manifest itself. It could be, for example, a memory leak that slowly consumes all resources on the router to the point where it stops working properly. You may have to replace it. It's too bad that D6400 of your isn't working well. Personally, I would suggest you get a dedicated ADSL modem and separate router. All-in-one modem/routers are more expensive to replace and often buggier. Plus you have the flexibility to switch ISPs without throwing out the router.
As far as network sniffers are concerned, Wireshark is popular. It's free, too. The learning curve is a bit steep. You will have to decide if you want to climb it. I'm starting to think that it may not be worth your time. You could just run it and see if something unmistakably obvious shows up, like a broadcast storm that congests your network. Alternatively, look at the Network graphs in Windows Task Manager and see if one or more PCs are receiving a lot network traffic.
Re: Creating a robust WiFi Network in large radio unfriendly house - expert advice welcomed
Thanks,will take a look with Wireshark and at least give it a day or so 🙂
Do you have any recommendations for a dedicated modem and seperate router that would be suitable? Obviously Netgear preferable as rest of my kit is Netgear.
Re: Creating a robust WiFi Network in large radio unfriendly house - expert advice welcomed
Netgear only has 2 modems: the DM200 and the DM111PSP. You should check with your ISP for compability as well as for a list of recommended modems. Although this is a Netgear forum, I don't work for Netgear so I have no problem advising you to research other brands. A modem is pretty basic. As long as it implements the DSL protocols used by your ISP, they should all be remarkably similar.
Netgear's routers are here. Unlike modems, a router can be somewhat of a personal choice due to the software features and reliability. I have a 2+ year old R7000. I now use it as an AP but it had no issues as a router. Being 2 years old, it is a bit underpowered for CPU intensive activity, like port forwarding and QoS. I never used these features so that never bothered me. Depending on the speed of your Internet, this may not be an issue because the CPU limitations only become apparent with high-speed service (>300 Mbps or so). I still think it's a great value. Many of the more expensive routers are overkill. You would probably not benefit from a tri-band router since you have multiple APs.
Re: Creating a robust WiFi Network in large radio unfriendly house - expert advice welcomed
Many thanks for the speedy responses and expert knowledge - very helpful.
I would close the problem but am still awaiting an update from anyone who knows about the WiFi setup with multiple access points. As mentioned I have enabled 2.4 & 5 on ALL routers and just tried to seperate the channels as best I can. I have looked around for articles & videos on how to set this up optimally but can only find very basic stuff and nothing about co-existing the two frequencies and/or which mode/speed is best to select for each router.
Mayve I should close this question and ask a seperate specific question?
Re: Creating a robust WiFi Network in large radio unfriendly house - expert advice welcomed
There should be no issues with using both 2.4 & 5. These two frequencies do not interfere with each other. Using the fastest mode possible. Seldomly, you may have to downgrade the mode if have an older device.
Within a frequency band, each AP should use a separate, non-overlapping channel. At 2.4 GHz, this means using channels 1, 6 and 11. Do the same for 5 GHz. If two APs must use the same channel, put as much distance as possible between them.
Do not use overlapping channels, like 1 and 2. This is the worst case scenario for Wi-Fi between each channel will perceive the other channel as noise, which can significantly impact speeds. It's actually better to use the same channel because devices can politely coordinate with each other to use the channel. This is an excellent explanation that is fairly easy to understand.
Re: Creating a robust WiFi Network in large radio unfriendly house - expert advice welcomed
Have you considered a mixture of wifi and powerline? The latter has come on in leaps and bounds in recent years. It is especially good for things like TVs, NAS devices, "streamers" and stuff that you do not move around the place.
Re: Creating a robust WiFi Network in large radio unfriendly house - expert advice welcomed
Hi Michael
Thanks for the comment and I'm sure you are correct about the powerlines reliability.
I already have a hard-wired ethernet network of eight ports which together with the routers allows us to directly connect about 20 or so peripherals. The main reason for the routers is to provide a strong WiFi signal in several discrete locations.
I guess you are suggesting static switches/hubs together with dedicated wireless access points?
Re: Creating a robust WiFi Network in large radio unfriendly house - expert advice welcomed
I was really thinking about rationalising what looks like a complicated network. With powerline plugs that also offer wifi, it should be possible to do away with some switches and reduce the number of routers you need to maintain, and replace when they die!
Re: Creating a robust WiFi Network in large radio unfriendly house - expert advice welcomed
If you are ethernet wired, that's true. But the ethernet wired building is rare.
If you are not ethernet wired, powerline requires less "construction work" than adding wires.
For most people seeking to "connect" a building, the choice is between powerline and wifi. If anything, the case for powerline gets stronger as wifi bands get more and more cluttered and powerline improves.
