Re: New - RBR750 / RBS750 Firmware Version 4.6.5.14 Released

Dazza762 · ‎2021-11-30

@FURRYe38 wrote:
Have you powered OFF the RBR and RBS for 1 minute or more after updating FW, then back ON with the RBR first then RBS?
Probably can ignore the udpate about v4.6.3x.

@Dazza762 wrote:
Well I've now updated the satallites to the latest FM. I'll just have to cross my fingers and hope it goes well.
I've just logged into the admin website and it now shows all three units as being on FM version V4.6.5.14 BUT it's saying there's an update for just one of the RBS units and the FM it's saying to update to is V4.6.3.16 (!!!)

No, not the RBS's but I did cut power to both the RBR and the ISP modem after updating both RBS. All fired back up now and the when I check for updates on the admin site it's saying no updates available for any of the 3 units which is as it should be. Will now just hope that all stays as stable as it was on the previous FM.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-11-30

Be sure to save off a back up configuration to file for safe keeping. Saves time if a reset is needed.
https://kb.netgear.com/000062080/How-do-I-back-up-the-configuration-settings-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System
Enjoy.

@Dazza762 wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

Have you powered OFF the RBR and RBS for 1 minute or more after updating FW, then back ON with the RBR first then RBS?

Probably can ignore the udpate about v4.6.3x.

@Dazza762 wrote:

Well I've now updated the satallites to the latest FM. I'll just have to cross my fingers and hope it goes well.

I've just logged into the admin website and it now shows all three units as being on FM version V4.6.5.14 BUT it's saying there's an update for just one of the RBS units and the FM it's saying to update to is V4.6.3.16 (!!!)

No, not the RBS's but I did cut power to both the RBR and the ISP modem after updating both RBS. All fired back up now and the when I check for updates on the admin site it's saying no updates available for any of the 3 units which is as it should be. Will now just hope that all stays as stable as it was on the previous FM.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-11-30

@Retsehc wrote:

"Be sure to save off a back up configuration to file for safe keeping. Saves time if a reset is needed. "

@FURRYe38 Ya, that is done before and after every change.

I am goning to make sure I have a stable environment and then start to undo changes/add back in some of the features to see which one or combo is the RC for me. I will post the finding here.
Sounds good. Good to know that it should be stable after this. Not everyone is having issues with v4 FW. Ya, it should be ALOT smoother for everyone though.

Nowadays, public companies are not going to do this due to the volatility of the market, saturated competition, and instant social media backlash. the last time I think we had a company in the US actually come out and say they messed up was when Coca-cola introduced "Classic" after "New Coke" failed. Frankly, they do not owe us any insight into their operations outside of "Yes there is an issue and we are working it." Do we all want a product without issues, YES. Everything electronic usually has an issue when you mass produce. They need to get a patch out which addresses the issues and if they were Agile, they would release several of them to address them one at a time instaed of a large one. They should be doing Green/Blue deployments to capture this before it hits most customers since they have auto update. Enough of my soapbox rant.. Like you, I would like a timeline of when they will fix it. about us being outside the bubble..I want to be there... I dont want to be on the inside being yelled at by customers AND management..

Also tech companies don't like seeing bad presidence either. Been like this for years. No tech company comes out and is fully or somewhat transparent. NG isn't the first to have problems in FW and won't be the last. Why no tech company announces when new FW is coming out. Its only insider info, maybe a beta or happens when they post it. Other router mfrs go thru same things and don't say much if anything at all. They seem to rely on phone support and forum feedback and probably now days social media to get there information about problems from.

I for one do see and feel users complaints and feelings.

225doug · ‎2021-11-30

My modem is an arris 822g I believe. Should not be a problem. Worked fine before. I have the router direct from the modem and the satellites direct from the router hardwired I believe with cat 5. I disconnected one satellite and found I had a rally good connection where it was located. 200/30 is the internet speeds. So I think that satellite may have been too close? But they are all hard wired. I disconnected everything, and rebooted the router first then connected the satellite. Interestingly, the router firmware ends in .5.16 and the satellite says .3.16. Should I be rebooting after the satellite is also connected, ecahse I could t reboot that separately.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-11-30

@225doug wrote:
My modem is an arris 822g I believe.
Is this a TM or TG 822?

Should not be a problem. Worked fine before. I have the router direct from the modem and the satellites direct from the router hardwired I believe with cat 5.
Regardless of wireless or ethernet connected RBS, the distance between the RBR and RBS and each other should be 30 feet or more. Being too close to each other can cause problems.

I disconnected one satellite and found I had a rally good connection where it was located. 200/30 is the internet speeds. So I think that satellite may have been too close? But they are all hard wired. I disconnected everything, and rebooted the router first then connected the satellite. Interestingly, the router firmware ends in .5.16 and the satellite says .3.16.
Please confirm full version of FW seen on the RBR and RBS:

For RBR750 it should be v4.6.5.14 or maybe v4.6.3.16, and RBS, if using older FW, should be v4.6.3.16. The RBS should be using same version, v4.6.5.14, that should be loaded on the RBR.

jamacphoto · ‎2021-11-30

Like you I can tell are involved in the agile process lol .
And like you said I wouldn’t want to be on the inside being bombarded. But actually in my job I am on the inside and I am level to being bombarded by the big issues. So know about what is needed to research reach out and test.

Funny we are pretty much saying the same thing just different side of the fence lol

Bottom line , don’t care, could be doing more or saying more. Example another big company I purchase stuff like two weeks ago when they had a deal. They promised and guaranteed two days shipping. After two days I’ve been getting an email every day saying they’re so sorry they’re working on it they tried to explain at a high-level politically correctly what the issue is and they’re on it. And yes the email they are doing is affecting a lot of people as I’m on another webpage were a few other people have been getting this and they’ve been going to Twitter so bad press has been going out. But has not stopped them on making sure the customers informed

Guess that all we want. Some communication they are working on it as of right now they say don’t care and you SOL. They did try ages ago and there was communications and now all stopped (well communicating with me) lol

Retsehc · ‎2021-11-30

All was good today. Jumped off last WebEx session and went to get kid from college.
Come back to find magenta light on RBR and the TV saying "I'm f275ed".

Reboot and changed one setting to get IP form dynamically from Router

System Up Time 1 days 08:21:07

Port	Status	TxPkts	RxPkts	Collisions	Tx B/s	Rx B/s	Up Time
WAN	1000M/Full	15523033	109534223	0	2398	26242	1 days 06:23:52
LAN1	1000M/Full	69462810	12505289	0	24332	33982	1 days 06:24:08
LAN2	100M/Full	501630	345066	0	613	3903	1 days 06:24:08
LAN3	100M/Full	9990934	1446956	0	15132	1324	04:37:41
2.4G WLAN b/g/n/ax	200M	464570	371404	0	1992	472	1 days 08:21:07
5G WLAN a/n/ac/ax	1201M	7493252	1894275	0	5416	3344	1 days 08:21:07

EvilHomer80 · ‎2021-11-30

I don't disagree with the fact that all manufacturers have issues with their software and aside from the bad press, another valid reason that Netgear won't share information yet about fixes is because they probably don't know themselves when they'll have a fix. Better to say nothing than to make promises you can't keep.

However, most other manufacturers do let you load whichever firmware you want without having to "hack" the html of the page and having to block access to the autoupdates through a downstream router, something not everyone will have and something that shouldn't be needed for a consumer grade, so easy you can configure it with an app type of product.

I work in product and I'd say the current Orbi 750/752/753 has failed to meet its product goals. I'd have expected a P45 by now if I was accountable for this product. Quite why anyone would defend it or Netgear astounds me. If you paid for this product with your own hard earned cash, you can absolutely be forgiven for being annoyed and frustrated.

It is fairly clear from 16 pages of this thread that the 750 series is much more functional on the previous 3.x firmware. Netgear could save themselves a lot of bad press and loss of customer trust, by simply making it easy, or automatically rolling back to a previous version whilst they resolve the issues. If there is no option to rollback they could bring back the last version of 3 and call it version 5.x or whatever. Bonus points given if they add in the option for future versions to disable auto updates. Instead they've left customers jumping through hoops for months, disabling feature by feature in a vain attempt to get some level of stability.

To offer an alternative service experience, I recently had an issue with a feature on my Synology NAS after upgrading to DSM 7. I raised a support request, which required no premium support package. They responded in a couple of days and put me in touch with a product manager for the photos application. I had an email back and forth outlining the issue, which presented a minor security concern for me. They acknowledged the issue as an intended feature but had not considered my use case, they offered an interim workaround. It took a few months, but they just released the latest version of the photos application and it includes a new feature to resolve exactly that issue. I am just a consumer, using only the DS420+ which cost less than Orbi system.

To conclude this long point. I appreciate that forums like this exist, with enthusiastic people who spend their own valuable time to help others. But Netgear themselves show a shocking disregard for their customers and to my example above, it absolutely does not need to be like that nor is it necessarily just the way it is

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-11-30

Wondering if there is a connection issue between the RBR and your ISP modem.

What CAT# i the cable between the modem and RBR?

The connection seem to be maintained for a day + then something stopped the connection.

Hard to tell if the RBR is the cause or the ISP modem the cause. Normally the RBR is always accepting of a WAN connection. If something fails, it take the up stream connection to get re-established while the RBR waits. Once connected the RBR will re-connect and the front LED should turn OFF.

Can you ask the ISP about the least time on there modem to see if the least expired on the modem? Possible the least expired and the least didn't get updated correctly thus the RBR can't get a full connecton.
Seen others with this similar modem. Does the ISP offer up a different brand or model modem by chance?

Any chance they support user owned modems?

@Retsehc wrote:

All was good today. Jumped off last WebEx session and went to get kid from college.
Come back to find magenta light on RBR and the TV saying "I'm f275ed".

Reboot and changed one setting to get IP form dynamically from Router

System Up Time 1 days 08:21:07

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time

WAN 1000M/Full 15523033 109534223 0 2398 26242 1 days 06:23:52

LAN1 1000M/Full 69462810 12505289 0 24332 33982 1 days 06:24:08

LAN2 100M/Full 501630 345066 0 613 3903 1 days 06:24:08

LAN3 100M/Full 9990934 1446956 0 15132 1324 04:37:41

2.4G WLAN b/g/n/ax 200M 464570 371404 0 1992 472 1 days 08:21:07

5G WLAN a/n/ac/ax 1201M 7493252 1894275 0 5416 3344 1 days 08:21:07

Retsehc · ‎2021-12-01

@FURRYe38

I put the ass in assume. I thought I would be able to keep the same IP for longer than 24 hours but no. Simple change and I have not had to reboot the modem this morning....lets see around 6pm central tonight.

@EvilHomer80
"However, most other manufacturers do let you load whichever firmware you want without having to "hack" the html of the page and having to block access to the autoupdates through a downstream router, something not everyone will have and something that shouldn't be needed for a consumer grade, so easy you can configure it with an app type of product."
AGREE

"I work in product and I'd say the current Orbi 750/752/753 has failed to meet its product goals. I'd have expected a P45 by now if I was accountable for this product."
AGREE. Most companies used to do this up to the 80's when greed overtook integrity. Now it is few and far between.

"Quite why anyone would defend it or Netgear astounds me."

I have that affect on most people.

"If you paid for this product with your own hard earned cash, you can absolutely be forgiven for being annoyed and frustrated."

AGREE and did.

" recently had an issue with a feature on my Synology NAS after upgrading to DSM 7."

We need to talk.. I am ready to NAS and allow it to be my multi terrabyte Plex server/vault and backup for 8 devices. Any suggestions? Do I REALLY need RED drives? I do not see the need for SSD at this juncture.

Retsehc · ‎2021-12-01

@jamacphoto

"Like you I can tell are involved in the agile process lol ."

Alas, I am found out. Yes... since 2006 I have been doing the Agile. I am a Project Manager and started with XP.. CSM, CSP+SM and "Agile Thought Leader" certs and badges. Work in cloud IaaS nerd herding DevOps and Dev teams.

EvilHomer80 · ‎2021-12-01

@Retsehc

"We need to talk.. I am ready to NAS and allow it to be my multi terrabyte Plex server/vault and backup for 8 devices. Any suggestions? Do I REALLY need RED drives? I do not see the need for SSD at this juncture."

I'll keep it brief just because we are in the netgear thread but I really rate the Synology NAS and would buy it again, though if you are going to run Plex and you can get a good price I'd go for the 920+ rather than 420+. Better processor and more memory out of the box. I wish I'd done it, but there again the DS420+ is absolutely fine and more than powerful enough.

I would argue you don't specifically NEED network drives. I was running desktop drives in my previous Drobo even though it was specifically discouraged and they were fine for years. However I did end up buying Seagate IronWolf drives rated for NAS just to be safe. The benefit is the drives are designed to be always on so I hope less likely to fail.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-12-01

I would talk to your ISP and ask them what there WAN IP address lease time policy is and see if anything in there logs is seen regarding IP address change, any loss of services at the modem and maybe if they can see weather the modem rebooted or got a new address and if they can tell if the connected router got re-connected. If the modem or the ISP is changing WAN IPs, seems like the modem isn't handling this right with the Orbi router. Might ask them about a static WAN IP address. Something that doesn't change.

LOL, I try not to a$$sume if I can help it.

@Retsehc wrote:

I put the ass in assume. I thought I would be able to keep the same IP for longer than 24 hours but no. Simple change and I have not had to reboot the modem this morning....lets see around 6pm central tonight.

jamacphoto · ‎2021-12-01

Agile on mainframe and other stuff talks to mainframe. Sadly I find agile is not agile enough to change its process.

jamacphoto · ‎2021-12-01

Lol

Great minds think alike.

About 11 pages ago or maybe even more I said exactly the same stuff as you that with their flawed automatic update process they could create a brand new firmware that was the last most reliable firmware and push it to everybody
Unless
It was updated due to some security flaw or something else
But
They are not complaining if we manually roll back.

So yes they could have created such a good customer response and saved about 11 to 15 pages if they just rolled back to the last one that was stable and force it out on their automatic update.

The topic of not being allowed to manually roll back or stop updates from happening is a totally other topic I should be on another post lolol

225doug · ‎2021-12-01

On my router (rbr750) I have the v4.6.5.14. But on my satellite (rbs750) it shows v4.6.3.16. It seems to be working fine for now, just curious if it’s wrong. I took off the second satellite because it seemed to be too close, and that might be the connectivity issue. I will update as I go along.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-12-01

I recommend if the RBS is working, leave it for now. Normally RBR and RBS FW should be on the same version. However with the v4 FW messing up some users systems, all we can do is try to help keep systems stable for now until NG comes out with a good fix for those effected. So if yours is working, I'd leave it for now.

@225doug wrote:
On my router (rbr750) I have the v4.6.5.14. But on my satellite (rbs750) it shows v4.6.3.16. It seems to be working fine for now, just curious if it’s wrong. I took off the second satellite because it seemed to be too close, and that might be the connectivity issue. I will update as I go along.

Dazza762 · ‎2021-12-01

@225doug wrote:
On my router (rbr750) I have the v4.6.5.14. But on my satellite (rbs750) it shows v4.6.3.16. It seems to be working fine for now, just curious if it’s wrong. I took off the second satellite because it seemed to be too close, and that might be the connectivity issue. I will update as I go along.

I updated the the day before yesterday and ended up in the same situation. Router on current FM but RBS's stuck on previous FM. Seemed ok at first but then yesterday is started playing up with various devices losing connection. Decided to manually update the 2 RBS I have (one at a time though!) in hope that it sorted the issue and has so far been very stable since. It's only been a day though so I'll see how it goes.

A lot of the issues reported here seem to involve wired connections bwteen RBR and RBS but my setup is simple. RBR connected to ISP modem. Set to router mode and wirelessly connected to the 2 RBS. No other equipment involed.

Dazza762 · ‎2021-12-02

Though hilariously, it hasn't stopped the blue light on the RBS's coming on randomly.

converge2 · ‎2021-12-02

@converge2 wrote:
Like many others here I started to get issues with dropouts with recent 4.* firmware updates.

Been super stable for at few days so I thought I write down what I did.

Dropouts were basically reconnects from satellite to main Orbi. I'm in AP mode behind a pfsense box (Netgate 3100).

Tried giving everything that's running 24/7 a static IP and permanent ARP table entry. Thought it fixed it, but drops came back.

Ethernet connecting as much as possible. Still drops (WiFi devices only, Ethernet rock stable).

Factory reset + manual reconfigure. Again, good for a day, but then came back.

Satellite is only about 25-30ft from base, so I thought devices might get confused (although they never have been in the past). Set the transmission power to 25% for 2.4 and 50% for 5Ghz. Coverage still good (should have been a nicer neighbor and done earlier) but still drops.

Removed AX for 2.4. Still dropping.

Removed multi media setting for 2.4 and set the channel from auto to 1 (1 is what my Mac WiFi diagnostics recommended). Rebooting everything in the network. Stable!

Jinxing it by posting here. TBD.

Updating to say that while it seems slightly more stable, I'm not convinced that the settings changes make a huge difference in my case. So don't want to send anyone down rabbit holes. I got an Ethernet cable fix for the most annoying drop case, the others I can live with for now and hope future updates make the Wifi more stable.

claudiut · ‎2021-12-03

@converge2: firmware issues with 4.* are widely documented here. If you want stability downgrade to 3.* This is the only thing that worked for me, after wasting days to try to make 4.* fw work.
If you can reutur the system, I suggest you do so and buy a different brand. Otherwise, I recommend trying to go back to 3.*

Mr410 · ‎2021-12-05

FW issues widely documented by those who speak the loudest. I have had ZERO issues with firmware 4.X. I just checked and I have been up 36 straight days, without one outage, drop or anything. So for many of the silent majority, the firmware has not been an issue.

I fired up my system on Sept 11. After a solid week of no issues, my wifi did drop out, two days in a row, every 24 hours. To me it lined up with DHCP renewal. So the one and only change I did was to establish a static ip for the router hanging of my Fios router and then told the orbi to use said static ip. Came back up, hasn't been down since (did have a power outage 36 days ago). I even was bold enough to upgrade the firmware of the satellite while I was 90 miles to the east at the beach. No issues. Not saying what I did was the magic bullet, but it has worked for me. In this configuraion I have experenced two FW upgrades, again resulting in no downtime or adverse performance. No idea why some expereince so many issues, but for me, Orbi has performed as advertised.

SadOrbi4200 · ‎2021-12-05

Counterpoint: i run a "samKnows" Comcast service monitor, which tracks public network speed and disconnections. The only device between the SamKnows box and the cable modem is the Orbi RBR750 - and last week, I had 122 service disconnections. I have had Comcast monitoring my cable modem for the past month, and there has only been 1 observed disconnect between them and my cable modem... so the Orbi is the culprit. Wish it weren't so, but it is.

CrimpOn · ‎2021-12-05

Could you explain a bit more about how you use SamKnows? (Is there a device? A cost?)

I have experimented a bit with PingInfoView, a program that sends ICMP packets to a user created list of IP's every 30 seconds and records whether responses are received or not. I ping all of the major DNS servers (Google, CloudFlare, OpenDNS, Quad Nine, CleanOpenBrowsing). Since ICMP is based on UDP packets which do not guarantee delivery, the premise is that missing a response here or there is not unusual, but if all of the DNS servers fail to respond (especially several times in a row) then there must have been a service interruption. This obviously might not detect a service interruption of less than 30 seconds. I have run a test for up to a week and found nothing that indicated a break in service through my old RBR50 router and Spectrum internet.

My interest is academic (SamKnows), and not related to the central topic (RBR750 firmware release). On that issue, I remain flummoxed by the situation that some Orbi customers are nearly "dead in the water" and desperate while other customers with apparently the same equipment experience no problems at all. This seems to be the case with almost every Orbi model. Maybe SamKnows uses a technology that provides different measurements and I might want to compare it against my current practice.

Thanks

tak1313 · ‎2021-12-05

@Mr410 wrote:
FW issues widely documented by those who speak the loudest. I have had ZERO issues with firmware 4.X. I just checked and I have been up 36 straight days, without one outage, drop or anything. So for many of the silent majority, the firmware has not been an issue.

Although I do not have the issues cited in this thread, since I operate my Orbi as AP and have updates blocked (currently static at v3), I fail to see any statistic that the MAJORITY of users do not have the claimed or similar issues. One could easily say that the majority do have issues, but are not posting in this forum, or just lurk to find answers.

I lurk in various forums quite a bit for answers to issues I may be having with electronics, automotive, appliances, etc., etc., etc. I rarely post myself if I am able to find answers by lurking/searching on the internet - even if the (current) answer is that there is no fix at this time.