Re: ORBI AP mode and ethernet backhaul

droog · ‎2020-10-13

Hi,

I've been having some trouble setting up wired ethernet backhaul in my home environment.

My gateway/perimeter appliance is a black box from from the ISP (1000Mbit fibre into an IPTV router). Home network is Gb wired with a bunch of wired and wireless devices.

I have one RBR850 in AP mode and one RBS850.

If I connect the two Orbi devices directly, the router shows the satellite as connected and all is well. When I move the satellite to another place in the house (where it is actually needed) the Orbi Mobile App shows the Satellite as disconnected, and the Web GUI shows no satellite at all. In this location, there is a NG GS208 8 port switch sitting between the Orbi devices.

I can, however, access the web GUI on both the router and satellite and my network seems to be working. Both devices are broadcasting the same SSID / security settings and password. So I guess my environment is Ad-hoc WiFi rather than "mesh" WiFi. Given my environment are these "effectively" (or exactly) the same thing?

Would there be any advantage trying to sync the two devices to have ethernet backhaul, or is the current setting optimal as-is? I'd like phones and laptops to roam betwen the access points as optimally as possible.

Thanks for any information / guidance!

--

Cheers,

-droog

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-10-17

Glad you got it working. I new you would.

Please mark your thread as solved so others will know.

Enjoy.

View solution in original post

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-10-13

If you have the RBS ethernet connected, then it will connect primarily via ethernet, however if it's ethernet connected and not using the wired backhaul, or not appearing corectly, then there is a problem in the following areas:

RBS should be wirelessly synced first, then ethernet connected afterwards.

RBS is connected to a different router thats in parallel with the RBR. ALL RBS have to be directly or indirectly connected behind the RBR for correct sync and proper backhaul use. https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy...

Bad ethernet cable in use between the RBS and RBR or switch.

Kind of LAN switch being used between the RBS and RBR is faulty.

Kind of LAN switch being used between the RBS and RBR is managed and IGMP protocoles are in use on this switch and should be disabled.

Kind of LAN switch being used between the RBS and RBR has green ethernet features that maybe incompatible with Orbi systems.

Be sure that the wiring and ethernet switch being used is wire configured behind the RBR correctly and the switch is working. If the RBS works directly connected behind the RBR and not in the remote location, I would check on the wire connection configuration to make sure that wired ethernet line is connected behind the RBR in AP mode. Swap out switches if needed to test.

droog · ‎2020-10-14

@FURRYe38 wrote:

RBS should be wirelessly synced first, then ethernet connected afterwards.

OK, that is helpful. After I posted this I tried moving the ethernet cable in the RBR from the WAN port to the next one over. All of a sudden I saw the satellite. In fact, I saw 2 devices one wired and one wireless. Similar MAC addresses, not sure if this is a problem or not.

But there was another problem: now I see the satellite is broadcasting my SSID on 5GHz but a different SSID on 2.4. And the one that matches somehow has security "non" instead of the chosen password from the router.

So I hard reset everyhing and started over (now for the third time). A few hours I got the satellites connecting, to the router (in router mode). Phew!

Then change the router to AP mode, and bam! The satellites cannot be found. This has to be the hardest and most frustrating end-user experience of any consumer electronics product I have ever used in over 20 years. I'm about ready to give up 😞

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Cheers,

Droog

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-10-14

The WAN port on the RBR has to be use always in router or AP Mode. Both RBS need to be connected to the back of the RBR or can be connected to a switch that is connected to the back of the RBR while in AP Mode:

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy...

droog · ‎2020-10-14

My issue now is exactly the same as this one:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/No-Security-5G-wifi-in-RBS40V-when-wired-synced/m-p/1841289

From my satellite web page:

I have done factory reset on all devices (multiple times now). Upgraded to latest firmware on evertthing. Why is the security type different on satellite and how can I change it.

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Cheers,

Droog

Hardware Version: RBS850
Firmware Version: V3.2.16.6_1.4.4

Orbi Satellite WiFi Status (2.4GHz)

Name (SSID): vmhome
Channel: 13
Region: China
Wireless mode: Up to 573.5 Mbps
Wireless AP: On
Broadcast Name: On
Security Type: WPA2-PSK[AES]

Orbi Satellite WiFi Status (5GHz)

Name (SSID): vmhome
Channel: 36 + 40 + 44 + 48(P)
Region: China
Wireless mode: Up to 2402 Mbps
Wireless AP: On
Broadcast Name: On
Security Type: None

droog · ‎2020-10-14

I tried to telnet into the satellite per the other thread, but I just get "connection refused", so I'm at a dead end now.

--

Cheers,

Droog

droog · ‎2020-10-14

Hmm. I re-did the whole thing again. This time the 2.4G and 5G secrutity settings were inherited. The difference was when I set the router into AP mode - last time I pressed the "Review WiFi settings" button this time I did not. Maybe there is a bug in the web interface somewhere.

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Cheers,

Droog

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-10-14

What browser are you using? I use Safari, Edge and Opera GX when I configure my system. Seen no issues when I configure the RBR for AP mode while off line from main host router. After RBR is configured for AP mode, then connect to main host router. I don't reivew WiFi settings on this page. I set up the SSID Name and PW prior when in router mode. Then connect the RBS while in router mode to be sure they sync. After sync, power OFF RBS, configure AP mode on the RBR and connect WAN port to main host router. After RBR is online, turn on RBS and let them synce wirelessly. After they are synce, I connect ethernet to RBS, one at a time.

droog · ‎2020-10-14

I was using Chrome browser. I think your earlier comment hit the nail on the head. Satellities must plug directly into router...

The topology of my physical cabling made it difficult to have the satellites plug directly to the Orbi router and still have the IPTV box plug directly into the ISP modem (which is apparently required). The ISP modem is (literally and figuratively) a black box with zero user-configurable options.

The IPTV device is used by my mother-in-law and she really depends on it. While our house is cabled for ethernet, her part of the house was not wired. It was not possible to run a line from her bedroom directly to the ISP modem, so we ran an extra cable from her bedroom to the nearest network port and hooked it up via a small unmanaged l switch.

With my wired network running to the ISP modem, and Orbi satellites doing their wireless mesh thing, things are now working. IPTV works, wife and kids have good WiFi access throughout the house. Just have to use wireless, rather than wired backhaul.

This is not the end of the world, it just seems a shame to be using wireless backhaul when the environment is crowded with WiFi signals and the house is wired for ethernet. I was hoping to make the network stable and foolproof because I often have to travel.

There is probably a clever networking solution to this - I found a suggestion elsewhere on this site about setting the ISP modem's DMZ host to the Orbi router, but my ISP modem is not user-configurable. VLANs, IGMP fowarding and the like might also do the trick also but I really don't understand that stuff. I could have a go at following detailed, step-by-step idiot-proof instructions to make it work - I'm sure the Orbi is capable, its just the wet-ware that isn't! Failing that, I'll probably just leave things as they are.

Thanks for the help so far, I would never have figured even this out without @FURRYe38 !

--

Cheers,

droog

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-10-14

This configuration works:

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy...

droog · ‎2020-10-15

Thats the config I started with... the Satellites won't sync with the router if I do it that way. I tried re-setting from scratch and syncing / rebooting probably 50-100 times. Nothing I did would ever worked.

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Cheers,

Droog

droog · ‎2020-10-15

If its that simple I will certainly try again.

I'm nervous about this because I sunk so much time and effort into doing it this way and it was not stable (worked for a few hours and then lost connection, WiFi password lost, SSID suddenly changed etc. Woulld you please indulge a few silly questions @FURRYe38 ?

(For the sake of argument lets number the ports 1..4 from left to right, port #1 on the router being the yellow WAN port)

Silly question 1: Port #1 WAN on the router in each case needs to go to the ISP, Modem correct?

Silly question 2: Given that my Orbi and satellites are now working together in wireless mesh - I should not need to "add satellite" in the Web Gui or the Orbi mobile app, correct?

Silly question 3: Is necessary to adopt one of those 3 topologies exactly as illustrated, or are unmanaged switches in the connection path ok?

Example: using the first (star) topology, can I connect satellite-1 port #1 to router port #2 directly, and satellite-2 port #1 to router port #3 with an unmanaged GS208 in the connection path?(See attachment)

Silly question 4: Again with the star topology, is it OK to use router ports #3 #4 for other wired connections - not to satellites? And other satellite ports to other wired devices?

Silly question 5: These topologies all work with the router in AP mode, correct?

I want to be absolutely certain this is supposed to work before embarking on another all-night WiFi configuation session. I believe I have tried all of these topologies already and none of them worked. Its entirely possible I screwed each one up in some way, though hence the silly questions. Again, your patience is very much appreciated!

--

Cheers,

Droog

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-10-15

@droog wrote:
If its that simple I will certainly try again.

I'm nervous about this because I sunk so much time and effort into doing it this way and it was not stable (worked for a few hours and then lost connection, WiFi password lost, SSID suddenly changed etc. Woulld you please indulge a few silly questions @FURRYe38 ?

(For the sake of argument lets number the ports 1..4 from left to right, port #1 on the router being the yellow WAN port)

Silly question 1: Port #1 WAN on the router in each case needs to go to the ISP, Modem correct? Yes.
Silly question 2: Given that my Orbi and satellites are now working together in wireless mesh - I should not need to "add satellite" in the Web Gui or the Orbi mobile app, correct? Correct.
Silly question 3: Is necessary to adopt one of those 3 topologies exactly as illustrated, or are unmanaged switches in the connection path ok?
Example: using the first (star) topology, can I connect satellite-1 port #1 to router port #2 directly, and satellite-2 port #1 to router port #3 with an unmanaged GS208 in the connection path?(See attachment)
Unmanaged switches can be used in between the RBR and RBS. I have 3 switches in a daisy chain between the RBR in AP mode and 1 of my RBS thats in the basement.

Silly question 4: Again with the star topology, is it OK to use router ports #3 #4 for other wired connections - not to satellites? And other satellite ports to other wired devices? Yes

Silly question 5: These topologies all work with the router in AP mode, correct? Yes

I want to be absolutely certain this is supposed to work before embarking on another all-night WiFi configuation session. I believe I have tried all of these topologies already and none of them worked. Its entirely possible I screwed each one up in some way, though hence the silly questions. Again, your patience is very much appreciated!

droog · ‎2020-10-16

OK, perfect! Thanks very much.

I must have somehow screwed something up in my setup. Maybe I should have let them work with wireless backhaul for a few days first, and then swapped to wired.

I'll change it this and update this thread but feel free to mark this as solved 🙂

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Cheers,

Droog

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-10-16

Ethernet should work soon after RBS are wirelessly synced. You don't have to wait a while.

There seems to be a configuration issue here I believe...

droog · ‎2020-10-17

Fixed. All working now.

I had the WAN port on the router connected to the ISP modem, but I did not have a separate wired connection (port #2) connected for backhaul. The other ports were all connected to regular wired devices. That was the config problem. Soon as I added that line, it all worked.

My suggestion would be to update the network topology diagrams to include the ISP to WAN port on router as well as the router-to-satellite connections.

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Cheers,

Droog

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-10-17

Glad you got it working. I new you would.

Please mark your thread as solved so others will know.

Enjoy.