Orbi AX with Gig Internet - Wi-Fi speeds cut in half

[wasima]

Was excited about putting in Orbi Ax so upgraded to Spectrum Gig internet, Wi-Fi speeds are less than half what is coming in via modem.
Orbi app reports gig speed download (940) and the correct upload speed (40)

I’ve had technicians check the incoming signal to the modem.

I’ve switched out the cables between modem and router and switch (Cat 7)

Modem is Spectrum E31U2V1

The router is a NETGEAR GS316 and is connected to the Orbi for internet (MoDem-Orbi-Switch-devices/rooms)

All the downstream Ethernet wired connections are all at Gig speeds

So why is my Wi-Fi so slow - using iPhone 11 Pro to measure - what should I do?

[plemans · Accepted solution]

Iphone 11 only supports 80hz wide channels. So its best case connection is 1200mbps. Reason why is a 2x2 antenna arrangement is going to hit max link speed of 2400mbps if its running in 160hz. a 2x2 in 80hz max links speed is going to be 1200mbps.  That's link speed, throughput is average of 55% of link speed. Some devices do a bit better than this. so hitting 650mbps is within what you'd expect. Again, some devices can hit faster speed either through using 160hz, lower overhead, or 3x3 antenna arrangements.  

[plemans]

so you're wired speeds hit gigabit?

but not your wireless? 

Try reading through wireless speed specs and checking out reviews.

the overal speed of wireless has more overhead so your link speed isn't the same as your throughput speed. 

https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html

[FURRYe38]

If your seeing near 900Mpbs on the Download then the Orbi is working correctly. You'll not see much more than this. 

Check with the phones Mfr to see what actual speeds are supported by the phone. Some phones may max out at around 400-500Mpbs depending upon design and support. 

Make sure your mobile device is connected to a 5Ghz frequency. Install WiFi SweetSpots and test the phone with the RBR. Turn OFF the RBS temporarily. 

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

"The router is a NETGEAR GS316" < This is a switch, not a router. 

[wase471111]

how do you set the co existance to 40 only?  In my software, you can either check the box to enable it, or uncheck it; there is no choice of 20 or 40..

thanks

[FURRYe38]

Unchecking the 20/40 box sets 40Mhz only. Then apply the change. 

[wase471111]

does that help the 5ghz speeds as well, or just the 2.4?

thanks

[Bandito]

@wasima 

It sounds like you are getting normal speeds over WiFi.  The advertised WiFi speeds are only theoretical and are probably not even achievable under perfect laboratory conditions and they definitely do not reflect real world usage.

On my previous Orbi RBK53 AC system, I had a 300 Mbps service and averaged pretty close to that level of throughput on my devices.  For the Orbi RBK852 AX system, I upgraded to 1 Gbps service and my average WiFi speeds now run in the 400-450 Gbps range.  I wish they were higher, but they are at least an improvement over what I had before.  I do have an iPhone 11 Pro Max and one laptop that both have AX WiFi capability.  The iPhone runs quite a bit faster than the AC devices, but the laptop doesn't.

If I take the iPhone into the office, where the router is located, and have it a few feet from the router, I can get about 820 Mbps, which is pretty good, but it drops off to 500-550 Mbps when in the rest of the house.  So, it sounds to me like your speeds are within the right ball park.

[FURRYe38]

Shouldn't effect 5Ghz. 

Check the WiFi SweetSpots app for connect rate with your device and the RBR. Check the actual supported conenction rate with the device Mfr support site information. I presume you should be seeing at least1300Mbps or over this depending on what the Mfr as set forth. Since the connection rate on 5Ghz is 2400Mbps.

[wase471111]

turning that setting off made everything slower, and caused a few of my 2.4 ghz devices to stop working, so that setting isnt good for me..

plus, even with 940/940 gig wired speeds, from Cox, I have NEVER seen wifi speeds on this wifi 6 router, and any other one I have tested, over 650mb, even standing right next to the router..when people say they get 700-900 mb speeds wirelessly, I think they are confused or making it up, because I have NEVER seen that...my iphone 11 pro max is wifi 6 capable, so I know my tests are pretty accurate..

[plemans · Accepted solution]

Iphone 11 only supports 80hz wide channels. So its best case connection is 1200mbps. Reason why is a 2x2 antenna arrangement is going to hit max link speed of 2400mbps if its running in 160hz. a 2x2 in 80hz max links speed is going to be 1200mbps.  That's link speed, throughput is average of 55% of link speed. Some devices do a bit better than this. so hitting 650mbps is within what you'd expect. Again, some devices can hit faster speed either through using 160hz, lower overhead, or 3x3 antenna arrangements.  

[wase471111]

so, does ity make a difference to get a wifi 6 router than has 160hz working, or, in the real world, does that not make much of a difference?

thanks

[FURRYe38]

Yes. However connected devices also need to support 160Mhz as well. 

[wase471111]

and, I assume there are few, if any "consumer level" devices that support that..

I cant decide if I should keep my rbk853 system, or go with the rax200...The orbi mesh is nice, since it pretty much guarantees fast speeds everywhere in your property; not sure the rax 200 would do the same, even with a ax wifi extender at the far opposite end of the property..my house is not that big, 2300 sf, with 60 devices, but the orbi ax isnt very good at connecting older 2.4 ghz devices

[FURRYe38]

I haven't had any issues connecting up older 2.4Ghz devices. However I do use the same SSID name and PW. Given that, there maybe some problems with Orbi AX in connecting new devices that are new to the house hold. I'm hoping that NG will implement the disabling of the 5G SSID broadcast like they did for Orbi AC. This helped users with new 2.4Ghz devices get connected. 

FW is still maturing. 

[wase471111]

it seems to be sporadic, as far as connecting 2.4 ghz devices to orbi AX; I have about 16 2.4 gz devices, and they all connect, except for some older bestbuy/google home enabled speakers; they just dont want to connect easily...everything else does without issue, and I am also using the same login/pass for 2.4 and 5ghz..

[FURRYe38]

What happens if you disable AX mode on the RBR? I had one NEST controller that would not connect well with AX enabled. 

[wase471111]

just tried it after turning off AX mode, and it didnt help; the fact you cant seperate 2.4 and 5ghz on the Orbi is a bad design choice..

the Linksys Velop MX10 system had the same shortcoming, but all my 2.4 and 5ghz devices connected automatically with that system

[Bandito]

The throughput speeds that the WiFi router manufacturers claim are the theoretical speeds and do not reflect what you'll actually see in real life.  They are not even close.

On my Orbi RBK852 AX system, I typically see around 350-400 Mbps on my AC devices, but do a little better on my AX devices at around 550 Mbps where I normally use them.  If I take my iPhone into the office where the router is just a couple of feet away, I can get 820 Mbps.

One thing to keep in mind though is that when performing a speed test, you want to try different servers as you will get differing results.  My speed test app defaults to the nearest AT&T server as I have AT&T fiber.  I get about 940 Mbps from the router itself, but from WiFi-connected devices I get around 350 Mbps.  If I switch to a new HiPoint server in my area, I get 450 - 500 Mbps.  It doesn't make any sense that my WiFi speed would vary depending on the server at the other end, but clearly this one server is capable of delivering more data to my clients.  Perhaps the HiPoint server has a higher speed Internet connection or maybe it receives less traffic, but it's the only server that consistently gives me greater throughput at my devices.

The one thing that I am still trying to understand is why upload speeds are only about half of download speeds.  My fiber connection is symmetric, so I get 1 Gbps both ways, yet my upload speeds at best are half my download speeds over WiFi.  Go figure.

[wase471111]

of course their claimed speeds are just pipe dreams; however, many folks post how they get near gig speeds with these things on wifi, so not sure if they are lying, or just quoted their "wired" speeds, instead of wifi speeds..

As far as upload speeds, I will say the Velop MX 10 wifi 6 gave me almost identical down and upload speeds; the orbi does not do that, so if asymetrical speeds are important to you, you might want to look elsewhere..

interesting point about trying different servers; I usually just use Cox servers or the closer ones to my house, but I'll try. your idea and see if there is any difference

thanks

[FURRYe38]

What are these 2.4Ghz devices that don't seem to connect well to Orbi? 

Possible that NG and tune the FW to help get them connected.

NG hasn't allowed any kind of separation of SSID. They seem to keep the signal SSID name and PW set in stone. Main principle of Smart Connect which has been aroudn for a while now. Same thing happens with Orbi AC. If they will implement the disabling of either SSID broadcast in the UI, this will help greatly. 

[wase471111]

strangely, as I said before, my linksys Velop wifi 6 system did not seperate the 2.4 from 5ghz either, but every device connected easily to it, so I know it can be done..the only thing that wont connect easily with Orbi are the 4 best buy/google home/older 2.4 speakers, and, I was able to get one. of them to connect earlier, but its a no go for the other 3..Everything else about the Orbi works well, and the micro stutters that plagued the Linksys wifi 6 system do not occur with the Orbi's..

I know its still very early in the wifi 6 AX standard, so as an early adopter, I expect some issues...all in all though, this seems like the best option at this point for wifi 6 mesh setups, although I have been tempted to try the star wars like nighthawk RAX 200...

[FURRYe38]

Using the same SSID name and PW from prior routers? I know this helps some. 

Ya, AX is still waiting to be finalized. Supposed to be this year. 

[wase471111]

yep, same everything, so hoping things get updated soon. Or, I'll just get rid of those speakers on ebay, since we use sonos now most of the time anyways, and they work perfectly, even though they connect through 2.4 as well..

[FURRYe38]

[Bandito]

I also tried the Velop AX system, but had somewhat slower speeds, ~50 Mbps or so, in general than the Orbi gave me.  I also had regular bad behavior with the Velops.  Everthing would indicate that all was well, but I would be unable to access the Internet for 2-20 mins, then suddenly it would start going through again.  This would happen several times a day, and Linksys was clueless.  This was on my second set, too.  The first set I purchased wouldn't sync the satellites no matter what we did.  So, they got exchanged, but as I said the second set had the wierd freezing issue, so I ended up returning them too.  

Netgear isn't perfect, but so far I've had a pretty good experience with the Orbi AX system and similar to the Orbi AC system, no one else seems to be able to match Netgear's overall speed.