RBR750 and RBS750 not seeing each other with wired backhaul

[dbrb2]

I have an RBR750 set up in AP mode

I also have an RBS750 

Both are running V4.6.14.3

Both units are connected to a switch via their LAN ports (I am not using the RBR as a router) 

Both units are reachable, and both are providing wifi access succesfully to various devices. 

However, the RBR750 shows "0 satellites connected" and likewise the RBS750 shows that it has no connection to the router 

From what I had read, I though these two units should be able to see each other using a wired backhaul...? 

[FURRYe38]

What is the Mfr and model# of the host router the NG router is connected too?

How is the RBR connected to the host router? WAN port? 

Whats the brand and model# of the LAN switch being used? 

What CAT# LAN cable is being used? CAT6 is recommended.

Try the RBS directly connected to the back of the RBR with out the switch?

[dbrb2]

What is the Mfr and model# of the host router the NG router is connected too?

RBR750
Firmware Version V4.6.14.3_2.3.12
GUI Language Version V3.0.1.54_2.1.30.3

How is the RBR connected to the host router? WAN port? 

RBR is connected to the main gigE switch using a cat6 cable 

RBR is set up in AP mode 

The internet router is also connected to this switch 

The WAN port on the RBR is not used 

Whats the brand and model# of the LAN switch being used? 

It's an unmanaged 8 port gigE switch from TPLink - TL-SG108S

How do the devices discover each other? 

What CAT# LAN cable is being used? CAT6 is recommended.

CAT6

Try the RBS directly connected to the back of the RBR with out the switch?

Unfortunately that would be a problem with the available cabling. I might be able to work something out temporarily though. However, at that point they would be so close that I presumably wouldn't know if the backhaul was wired or wireless...? 

Both devices are visible on the network - and both are providing wifi access to devices - but if they are not seeing each other, that presumably means both are acting as standalone access points....which may or may not have any real-world effect in terms of device handover etc...? 

[FURRYe38]

---

@dbrb2 wrote:

What is the Mfr and model# of the host router the NG router is connected too?

RBR750
Firmware Version V4.6.14.3_2.3.12
GUI Language Version V3.0.1.54_2.1.30.3

What is the other routers brand name and model# that the RBR750 is connected too? 

How is the RBR connected to the host router? WAN port? 

RBR is connected to the main gigE switch using a cat6 cable 

RBR is set up in AP mode 

The internet router is also connected to this switch 

The WAN port on the RBR is not used <The WAN port on the RBR while in AP mode HAS to be used for proper operation of the RBR AND RBS. 

Whats the brand and model# of the LAN switch being used? 

It's an unmanaged 8 port gigE switch from TPLink - TL-SG108S

How do the devices discover each other? 

What CAT# LAN cable is being used? CAT6 is recommended.

CAT6

Try the RBS directly connected to the back of the RBR with out the switch?

Unfortunately that would be a problem with the available cabling. I might be able to work something out temporarily though. However, at that point they would be so close that I presumably wouldn't know if the backhaul was wired or wireless...? 

Something to try as a quick test to see if the RBS sync over ethernet to the back of the RBR and they show properly when ethernet connected on the RBRs web page. Wired status should appear for each RBS after they successfully sync over ethernet. 

Both devices are visible on the network - and both are providing wifi access to devices - but if they are not seeing each other, that presumably means both are acting as standalone access points....which may or may not have any real-world effect in terms of device handover etc...? 

---

[dbrb2]

Ah sorry I made a mistake: 

I am (and have always) been using the RBR WAN port in AP mode. 

In AP mode then, the WAN port does not merely become another LAN port? 

I have connected the RBS to one of the RBR LAN ports, and the RBR now shows "12 sat connected, connection type wired"

Likewise, the App shows the RBS connected 

The RBS web interface itself seems a little confused, showing the router greyed out - but maybe that is because it has no graphic for a wired connection...

The fact this works might suggest that to use the wireless backhaul you have to use the RBR LAN ports - but to operate in AP mode you have to use the WAN port....so the RBR would need two cables run to it...? If so, I might go back to the old setup 🙂 

Thanks! 

[CrimpOn]

Would it be correct to conclude that physical wiring layout is responsible for the way devices are connected?

i.e. two devices are located at a central wiring hub:

• Internet Service Provider (ISP) router, and
• 8-port gigabit switch

The Orbi router, Orbi satellite, and perhaps other user devices are located in different locations using Ethernet cables which connect to that wiring hub.

There is only a single Ethernet cable from the hub to the location of the Orbi router.

Locating the Orbi router at the hub is undesirable for one reason or another.

The traditional method of using the Orbi in Access Point (AP) mode would be:

ISP Router -> Orbi Router WAN (in AP mode) -> LAN port to gigabit switch

Everything else connected to the gigabit switch.

[FURRYe38]

Ok so if you have one RBS directly connected to the back of the RBR, this may point to the LAN switch your using? Or a bad cable in beteen the RBR, switch and from switch to RBS at it's remote location. Something is blocking proper data flow between the RBR and RBS.

NG GS-105/108v4 and GS308v3, D-Link DGS-105/108 and HP ProCurve 1400/1800 series switches work for Orbi systems.

---

@dbrb2 wrote:

Ah sorry I made a mistake: 

I am (and have always) been using the RBR WAN port in AP mode. 

In AP mode then, the WAN port does not merely become another LAN port? 

I have connected the RBS to one of the RBR LAN ports, and the RBR now shows "12 sat connected, connection type wired"

Likewise, the App shows the RBS connected 

The RBS web interface itself seems a little confused, showing the router greyed out - but maybe that is because it has no graphic for a wired connection...

The fact this works might suggest that to use the wireless backhaul you have to use the RBR LAN ports - but to operate in AP mode you have to use the WAN port....so the RBR would need two cables run to it...? If so, I might go back to the old setup 🙂 

Thanks! 

---

[dbrb2]

This is the setup I was trying to use - which resulted in the two Orbi units being individually reachable, but not seeing each other: 

This, below, is the only setup so far where the two devices successfully see one another: 

I've tested out the cables, so am confident there is no problem there. But perhaps backhaul only works when using the LAN port on the RBR....? 

I'm going to try NOT using the WAN port on the RBR at all, and see what effect that has 

[dbrb2]

Ah OK....

THAT seems to be working - though I will keep an eye on it....

It looks like when in AP mode you can use the WAN port as a LAN port for some things - but NOT for backhaul 

That seems to correspond to what this gent found: 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-Wi-Fi-5-AC-and-Orbi-with/Orbi-RBR750-Wired-Backhaul/m-p/217813...

Though the RBS still shows no connection to the router: 

Both the App and the RBR do show a connection to the satellite....so fingers crossed all is OK. 

Are you aware of any potential pitfalls to not using the WAN port? Given the RBR is not being used as a router, not using the WAN port does make some sense

Cheers!

[dbrb2]

Yes @CrimpOn  - see diagram in reply above 

The central hub is where the router and switch have to be - but is also between two very thick structural walls, so is a poor place for the Orbi. I aso needed some features from the router firewall not available when using the Orbi in that mode 

This is the layout that (touch wood) seems to be working OK - with the RBR WAN port unused, still in AP mode: 

[dbrb2]

The only problem I have found so far with this setup (not using the WAN port on the RBR) is minor: 

The f/w update page shows "no internet" - suggesting it is only checking the WAN port for connection to the world 

So far as I can tell, everything else is working OK though

[FURRYe38]

There are other items of Orbi that depend on use of the WAN port, when in router or AP mode. 

Glad you got it working. Please mark your thread as solved so others will know. Be sure to save off a back up configuration to file for safe keeping. Saves time if a reset is needed.
https://kb.netgear.com/000062080/How-do-I-back-up-the-configuration-settings-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System
Enjoy. 📡

[dbrb2]

Ah thanks - I will mark it as resolved soon. 

Can you think of any of the other functions that need the WAN port? I just want to check it isn't anything that might impact on its ability to work as a mesh network. So far, it _seems_ to be working OK!

Cheers,

Ben

[FURRYe38]

Front LED status operation and FW update checking are others. NG intended the WAN port to be used always. The Orbi systems and some Nighthawk routers are same way. Regardless of AP mode, WAN port needs to be connected. 

[dbrb2]

Ah Ok

Having said that, the unit does seem to work with the WAN port not in use - so if I am happy to rely on manual firmware checks and some cosmetic LED issues I'll be OK at a functional level? 

Since the wired backhaul doesn't seem to work when using the WAN port, I think I'll have to stick with the current setup 

The ideal solution I guess would be for the firmware to be fixed so that either backhaul worked with the WAN port in AP mode, or even better that the unit didn't need the WAN port when not in router mode (since if its not routing, WAN and LAN have no meaning) - but or an older product I guess that may not happen 

[FURRYe38]

IF thats how you want to run it. Your choice. Intended design is to use the WAN port. The wired backhaul works when using the intended WAN port for the RBR connected to the main host router and LAN ports ethernet connected to the RBS. 

Only issues that can be seen that can inhibit good operation is bad cabling or a bad switch in between that can block good data flow in between the RBR and RBS. No FW fixes are needed when used in this intended configuration.

My Orbi AX systems work well for me in this configuration with using the WAN port. If yours isn't working then you'll need to find out where the problem is. 

[dbrb2]

Understood 

Unfortunately having to use the WAN port for the connection to the main switch, but one of the the LAN ports for the backhaul to other RBS units, would in my case mean running two cables to the RBR - since in my case the main switch and router are by necessity remote from the RBR location. 

Running just one cable to each unit from the main switch to the units LAN port, so far as I can see, works almost perfectly. It just looks like there are some oddities with the RBR meaning even when in what is nominally non-routing (AP) mode, some functionality doesn't quite work - presumably because it was originally designed to be a router, and when using it as AP it is a bit rough around the edges. 

[FURRYe38]

Ethernet connected RBS should be connected as such so it works correctly, router or AP mode:

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy... 📡

This is tried and true that works. 

[dbrb2]

Interesting!  

The image below - taken from the page you linked to: 

Is in fact my setup - RBR and RBS LAN ports back to a central switch, but the yellow "WAN" port on the RBR is not connected at all 

[FURRYe38]

Correct, as the RBRs WAN port is/should be connected to the ISP modem or upstream router here when in router or AP mode.