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Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973
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AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

goswh
Tutor

AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

I have an Orbi 2 satellite kit that I bought in March of 2017. Apparently it is now EOL and EOS.

 

I'm running the latest firmware as of yesterday's download and install, and still cannot get Ethernet Backhaul over these XS708T & 716T switches. 

 

I've followed the directions and tried this several times and there is nothing I could find in any forum post on the topic after searching and reading for two days. 

 

Scenario: PFsense 5100 hardware appliance is my router/firewall. I use AP mode because I don't want/need double NAT and I run VLANs.

 

All the diagrams for ethernet backhaul show the router's switch port 1 being the connection point for a successful ethernet backhaul, and I verified this using a standalone 108T. 

 

However, backhaul ethernet does not work at all if the router is in AP mode. 

 

From what I've been able to test and determine, Ethernet Backhaul is only supported with the RBR50 is in Router mode.

 

When in AP mode, the WAN port and the ethernet switch ports are bridged. The only MAC address that becomes available is the WAN (yellow) port. Since all the ports on the RBR are now switched, there is no logical separation of the Internet WAN port and the local switch ports. 

 

When you use two separate ethernet connections to the RBR50 (one for the WAN and one for the LAN) the RBR50 craps out and cannot be used until I unplug the switch port, and leave the Internet port connected. 

 

The satellites are connected to the same switch, on ports 5 & 6, and I've got them setup as untagged members of vlan 12. 

 

I just find it odd that I cannot use Ethernet backhaul unless I keep "router mode" enabled. 

 

Has anyone else experienced this? 

 

Thanks,

//SWH

 

 

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 1 of 11

Accepted Solutions
goswh
Tutor

Re: AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

Well, I fixed it. 🙂

 

It's a longer story, which I am happy to share here in detail, but before that long post here's the TL:DR:

 

I consolidated a few different vendor switches in such a way that I had all NetGear ProSafe switches and no others. It gave me peace of mind to have an all Netgear infrastructure. And, "one throat to choke," so to speak. Well all but one bit of kit, and that's my trusty firewall.  

 

Speaking of, here's the short version

 

  1. used an available port on the Netgate SG-5100 to be my dedicated Wireless/Wired home network and setup a 192.168.13.0 / 24 network complete with DNS, DHCP and all that in the pfSense firewall software running on the 5100.  I work from home and segregate traffic for my VMLAB, Corporate Network, Home PCs, IOT devices, Wireless and more. Orbi's don't do that. 🙂 Configured all firewall rules for outbound and intra - lan access for my internal networks
  2. Configured all 5 Netgear switches with VLAN 13 for this new network.
  3. Added a factory defaulted RBR50 with the latest GA firmware to the firewall via the Internet port. Configured the Orbi Router to be in AP Mode. Went into Advanced Settings again and disabled Daisy Chaining (important for Next Steps further down the page). Connected the Router LAN port #1 to a Netgear switch configured wtih an untagged VLAN ID of 13 running a PVID of 13.
  4. Created trunk ports on all the switchs so that every switch would be able to carry all VLAN traffic to every corner of my network.
  5. Connected Orbi Satellites (SBS50 x 2; RBS20 x1) to the living, laundry & guest room Netgear swtiches configured the same way for VLAN 13 as described in Step 3. Didn't need to do anything to the satellites but plug them in to power and the network drop in each room. 

 

With the removal of the other networking gear and a reduction in my network stack, I'm actually getting better throughput, performance and stability on the wire and wireless sides of the setup. Even with the 4x4 MIMO and the 6X6 MIMO APs I had, I would normally get 60-100 MBps over Wireless. I had 6 APs (5 in the house, 1 in the office) and I never felt like I was getting my money's worth.  And this was with my iMac being within 5 feet of an AP. 

 

The Orbi kit I ordered from Costco in March of 2017 sits 15 feet from my iMac and I get 200 to 400+ MBps over the wireless connection when I go to Fast.com in a browser.   So clearly the Orbi's and the Qualcomm Chips they use, are something. 

 

Anyway, I appreciate the responses. It's always fun to roll up my shirt sleeves, pull and all nighter, and know that my tech skills are still somewhat relevant.  

 

Up Next:  I am going to try to use the 2nd RBS20 that I have in the garage using wireless backhaul. The fact that I disabled daisy chaining is going to make this just about impossible, I realize. 

 

I'm only hesitant because I finally have this ethernet backhaul working, and I don't want to F with the settings. LOL!

 

View solution in original post

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 4 of 11

All Replies
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

You are going to hear that "Orbi does not function well with managed switches."  I, personally, have none and thus have no opinion.

 

I have never heard anyone say that Orbi ethernet backhaul only works in router mode.  As far as I know, it works in both router and AP mode.  The VLAN's and loops may be causing unnecessary and unwanted confusion.  Orbi supports VLAN's but only in a very limited sense: for television sets.  (Check the VLAN Help information at the bottom of the VLAN page for more information.)

 

Does everything have to pass through the managed switch?  Can't the Orbi WAN port be connected directly to the 5100 router and the satellites directly to the Orbi LAN ports?

 

It might help to explain how VLAN's figure into the network design.  Are you thinking that WiFi devices will be "VLAN aware"?  Plan to ethernet connect devices to the satellites which must be part of VLAN's?

Message 2 of 11
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

"I'm running the latest firmware as of yesterday's download and install, and still cannot get Ethernet Backhaul over these XS708T & 716T switches. " These are managed switches, be sure to disable ALL IGMP protocols on these switches. The RBS50 series does work while ethernet connected. I have one RBS50 behind 4 daisy changed non managed switches. Router or AP mode. No problems here. 

 

Must be nice having 10Gb LAN support. Smiley Happy


@goswh wrote:

I have an Orbi 2 satellite kit that I bought in March of 2017. Apparently it is now EOL and EOS.

 

I'm running the latest firmware as of yesterday's download and install, and still cannot get Ethernet Backhaul over these XS708T & 716T switches. 

 

I've followed the directions and tried this several times and there is nothing I could find in any forum post on the topic after searching and reading for two days. 

 

Scenario: PFsense 5100 hardware appliance is my router/firewall. I use AP mode because I don't want/need double NAT and I run VLANs.

 

All the diagrams for ethernet backhaul show the router's switch port 1 being the connection point for a successful ethernet backhaul, and I verified this using a standalone 108T. 

 

However, backhaul ethernet does not work at all if the router is in AP mode. 

 

From what I've been able to test and determine, Ethernet Backhaul is only supported with the RBR50 is in Router mode.

 

When in AP mode, the WAN port and the ethernet switch ports are bridged. The only MAC address that becomes available is the WAN (yellow) port. Since all the ports on the RBR are now switched, there is no logical separation of the Internet WAN port and the local switch ports. 

 

When you use two separate ethernet connections to the RBR50 (one for the WAN and one for the LAN) the RBR50 craps out and cannot be used until I unplug the switch port, and leave the Internet port connected. 

 

The satellites are connected to the same switch, on ports 5 & 6, and I've got them setup as untagged members of vlan 12. 

 

I just find it odd that I cannot use Ethernet backhaul unless I keep "router mode" enabled. 

 

Has anyone else experienced this? 

 

Thanks,

//SWH

 

 


 

 

Message 3 of 11
goswh
Tutor

Re: AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

Well, I fixed it. 🙂

 

It's a longer story, which I am happy to share here in detail, but before that long post here's the TL:DR:

 

I consolidated a few different vendor switches in such a way that I had all NetGear ProSafe switches and no others. It gave me peace of mind to have an all Netgear infrastructure. And, "one throat to choke," so to speak. Well all but one bit of kit, and that's my trusty firewall.  

 

Speaking of, here's the short version

 

  1. used an available port on the Netgate SG-5100 to be my dedicated Wireless/Wired home network and setup a 192.168.13.0 / 24 network complete with DNS, DHCP and all that in the pfSense firewall software running on the 5100.  I work from home and segregate traffic for my VMLAB, Corporate Network, Home PCs, IOT devices, Wireless and more. Orbi's don't do that. 🙂 Configured all firewall rules for outbound and intra - lan access for my internal networks
  2. Configured all 5 Netgear switches with VLAN 13 for this new network.
  3. Added a factory defaulted RBR50 with the latest GA firmware to the firewall via the Internet port. Configured the Orbi Router to be in AP Mode. Went into Advanced Settings again and disabled Daisy Chaining (important for Next Steps further down the page). Connected the Router LAN port #1 to a Netgear switch configured wtih an untagged VLAN ID of 13 running a PVID of 13.
  4. Created trunk ports on all the switchs so that every switch would be able to carry all VLAN traffic to every corner of my network.
  5. Connected Orbi Satellites (SBS50 x 2; RBS20 x1) to the living, laundry & guest room Netgear swtiches configured the same way for VLAN 13 as described in Step 3. Didn't need to do anything to the satellites but plug them in to power and the network drop in each room. 

 

With the removal of the other networking gear and a reduction in my network stack, I'm actually getting better throughput, performance and stability on the wire and wireless sides of the setup. Even with the 4x4 MIMO and the 6X6 MIMO APs I had, I would normally get 60-100 MBps over Wireless. I had 6 APs (5 in the house, 1 in the office) and I never felt like I was getting my money's worth.  And this was with my iMac being within 5 feet of an AP. 

 

The Orbi kit I ordered from Costco in March of 2017 sits 15 feet from my iMac and I get 200 to 400+ MBps over the wireless connection when I go to Fast.com in a browser.   So clearly the Orbi's and the Qualcomm Chips they use, are something. 

 

Anyway, I appreciate the responses. It's always fun to roll up my shirt sleeves, pull and all nighter, and know that my tech skills are still somewhat relevant.  

 

Up Next:  I am going to try to use the 2nd RBS20 that I have in the garage using wireless backhaul. The fact that I disabled daisy chaining is going to make this just about impossible, I realize. 

 

I'm only hesitant because I finally have this ethernet backhaul working, and I don't want to F with the settings. LOL!

 

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 4 of 11
goswh
Tutor

Re: AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

Thanks, @CrimpOn . 

 

I tend to be wordy in forum posts, so I do my best to minimize the chatter. To your point, though, yes, I could have explained that a bit better. I did as you suggested and put the Orbi right off an unused port of the 5100. Longer post in reply to my OP was just published. 

 

Thanks for the feedback!

//Shawn

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 5 of 11
goswh
Tutor

Re: AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

I forgot to include a screenshot showing the Orbi Web UI and the solid backhaul connections over the wire. I used some white blocks to hide MAC addresses and parts of IPs, but it's otherwise unaltered.

 

It's attached, and linked here: Orbi router web UI showing wired backhaul 

 

 

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 6 of 11
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

Interesting for sure. Glad you got it working. Well hopefully by adding one more RBS shouldn't mess anything up. Smiley Wink

 

Mark your thread as solved so others will know. 

 

Enjoy. 

Message 7 of 11
goswh
Tutor

Re: AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

FYI Moderators, I tried to enter the RBS20 part number in the Model field above and it wasn't possible to add it. So I'm posting this under the router RBR50 model. Not sure if there is a way to add that or tag it so it becomes an option for others in future posts. Thank you.

 

@FURRYe38 @CrimpOn 

 

Success!!!

 

Screen Shot 2019-11-22 at 5.24.01 PM.png

 

I took the 2nd RBS20 out of the box and tested the wired backhaul and then updated to the latest firmware for the unit.

 

I re-enabled daisy chaining under Advanced Settings in the Web UI. 

 

Incidentally, I had a browser message pop up warning me that the Orbi UI only allows one concurrent user login to the app. I was on my iPad in Safari and was using the web app on my iMac at the same time.  I point that out as a nice security feature that is enabled by default.

 

Finding that was kinda like figuring an easter egg in a new version of Android. 😛

 

Anyway, after a sucessful upgrade, I rebooted the RBS20 and it wouldn't connect via wireless to the router that was 15 feet away. I ended up resetting the RBS20 twice. The first reset was because I was impatient. These devices take a long time to get fired up. Upwards of 10 minutes in my recent experience. I reset it a 2nd time because the unit kept flashing magenta, and again, I wasn't patient enough. 

 

Finally, I went for a 20 minute stroll and when I got back, the RBS20 was sync'd at 5 Ghz!

 

I'm not sure if anyone would be interested in a video or a series of screen shots showing the switch VLAN configurations and an overview of the network side of things. I'm thinking it might be good for folks who might not have real world examples of the configurations with these switches. 

 

If there is enough interest, I'm happy to post in the proper community and link here so that others can find it. 

 

What do you all think?

 

//Shawn

 

 

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 8 of 11
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

Glad you got the 2nd RBS working. 

 

Video would be helpful for those who only have your model switches. Most average home users are not going to have these advanced switches or have the advanced knowledge to use them. Most users will have the more simpler non managed switches. Something to make a video or document and post here:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/ORBI-RBK50-RBS50-Tips-Tricks-Hidden-Secrets-etc/td-p/1745266/j...

 

Message 9 of 11
goswh
Tutor

Re: AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

Thank you!

 

I've marked the solution as accepted and will follow up with a video. I agree that not everyone will have need for the advanced switches. 

 

The fact that the Orbi system, despite parts being 2 years old (RBR50 and RBS 50) and EOL/EOS, still works and works so well is pretty darned amazing.

 

I know there are a lot of folks who bash various products from vendors, but Netgear has always been solid with updates and support, even if product launches are rocky. 

 

As a VMware home lab enthusiast and IT professional the balance of features and cost, not to mention performance, there has been no equal.

 

Thanks again for the replies and suggestions!

 

//Shawn

 

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 10 of 11
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?

I don't thing the Orbi is EOL/EOS. NG still working on FW udpates for both 1st gen Orbi AC and v2s seen out there. 

 


Enjoy. Smiley Wink

Message 11 of 11
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