Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

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scornwell wrote:

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RogerSC wrote:

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scornwell wrote:

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RogerSC wrote:

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jleecloak1 wrote:

next month........

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is only a couple of days away *smile*.

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It'll still be next month 30 days from now.

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Guess my glass is half full and yours is half empty *smile*.

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My glass is full of Scotch.

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Cheers!

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Dustin278 wrote:
If you look hard enough from a post this am someone posted one of the newest firmwares that is probably in beta: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Updated-to-V1-12-0-18-now-Satellite-will-not-sync-quot-Wireless/td-p/1321830/page/2

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Still there...

Same one I got last night from level 2 support and fixed my problems..

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Dustin278 wrote:

Same one I got last night from level 2 support and fixed my problems..

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So ... what model of Orbi system do you have?  I have the RBK53 (RBR50 router and two RBS50 satellites), and I so want to try this.  Right now, I'm keeping things limping along by just running the router with no satellites - not exactly what I paid for.  But I'm reluctant to try the firmware without knowing what Orbi systems it has successfully fixed.

It's for RBR50 and RBS50.

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DarrellRiffe wrote:

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Dustin278 wrote:

Same one I got last night from level 2 support and fixed my problems..

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So ... what model of Orbi system do you have?  I have the RBK53 (RBR50 router and two RBS50 satellites), and I so want to try this.  Right now, I'm keeping things limping along by just running the router with no satellites - not exactly what I paid for.  But I'm reluctant to try the firmware without knowing what Orbi systems it has successfully fixed.

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I also have the RBK53 - make sure you update the satellites first and then the router! There are multiple ways to update but here is the way I did it.

1)Find ip address for each satellite and login - one of mine was 192.168.1.5 and the other was 192.168.1.3 - yours will be different I am sure but those were mine - then I loaded the RBS50 for the satellites then it took about 3 minutes each to finish

2)updated the router via 192.168.1.1 and used the file RBR50

Thank you for the link to the v2 beta firmware. I have updated both the router and the satelites this morning. Let's see how they behave now.

Did you get disconnected using the beta firmware?

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jleecloak1 wrote:

Did you get disconnected using the beta firmware?

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I have been up and running for almost 48 hours with no problems - My S8 was disconnecting but after the latest Verizon update is running perfect
 

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rexet wrote:

Thank you for the link to the v2 beta firmware. I have updated both the router and the satelites this morning. Let's see how they behave now.

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Despite having a rock solid v1.12 installation, I went against protocol and went ahead and installed the beta. I immediately ran into issues. Downstream bandwidth dropped from 900+ Mbps to 100.

Based on prior experience, I immediately enabled telnet, did the NVRAM wipe, and then did a factory reset and proceeded to reconfigure everything, yet again. Now everything is working fine, just like before.

I don't know what Netgear's engineers are smoking, but it sure looks like the upgrade process is broken. So unhappy right now. Even though my network is working fine, I now can effectively assume that every update I want to install just to get security fixes is going to involve a full wipe and reconfigure.

NETGEAR: GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER!! 😡😡😡

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nxc wrote:

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rexet wrote:

Thank you for the link to the v2 beta firmware. I have updated both the router and the satelites this morning. Let's see how they behave now.

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Despite having a rock solid v1.12 installation, I went against protocol and went ahead and installed the beta. I immediately ran into issues. Downstream bandwidth dropped from 900+ Mbps to 100.

 

Based on prior experience, I immediately enabled telnet, did the NVRAM wipe, and then did a factory reset and proceeded to reconfigure everything, yet again. Now everything is working fine, just like before.

 

I don't know what Netgear's engineers are smoking, but it sure looks like the upgrade process is broken. So unhappy right now. Even though my network is working fine, I now can effectively assume that every update I want to install just to get security fixes is going to involve a full wipe and reconfigure.

 

NETGEAR: GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER!! 😡😡😡

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Hmmm...I replied to this posting already, my reply seems to have disappeared. So I'll try again *smile*.

Sometimes when a router is flashed, memory corruption can result. What the user sees is problematic behavior, and if they were to get in touch with Netgear support, one of the first things that's suggested is to reset to factory defaults, and re-enter the user's configuration. It is common practice with consumer routers that if problems arise after a firmware update flash, manual or automatic, that the router is reset and reconfigured. While Netgear would like this not to happen, I'm sure, it really does happen and there's not much that Netgear can do about it. Kind of a random occurance for the level of hardware that consumers are willing and able to pay for.

So your experience, while not fun, is part of the normal course of long term hardware use. I really hope that your router will be fine from here on out, but I've had to reset my Orbi units here once or twice as well due to problematic behavior, and that's just life. Most times when I do a factory default reset, it's because that's the most expedient way to fix a serious problem. And things are usually good for quite a while after that. I really hope that's the case for you.

I've been solid on 1.12.0.18 as well, and also decided to try the beta.  Working fine without any speed loss (200 down).  I do make it a point that once the router and satellites are up on the new firmware, take everything down and then bring them back up starting with the router.  Haven't had to do a reset or nvram wipe - yet.

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RogerSC wrote:

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Hmmm...I replied to this posting already, my reply seems to have disappeared. So I'll try again *smile*.

 

Sometimes when a router is flashed, memory corruption can result. What the user sees is problematic behavior, and if they were to get in touch with Netgear support, one of the first things that's suggested is to reset to factory defaults, and re-enter the user's configuration. It is common practice with consumer routers that if problems arise after a firmware update flash, manual or automatic, that the router is reset and reconfigured. While Netgear would like this not to happen, I'm sure, it really does happen and there's not much that Netgear can do about it. Kind of a random occurance for the level of hardware that consumers are willing and able to pay for.

 

So your experience, while not fun, is part of the normal course of long term hardware use. I really hope that your router will be fine from here on out, but I've had to reset my Orbi units here once or twice as well due to problematic behavior, and that's just life. Most times when I do a factory default reset, it's because that's the most expedient way to fix a serious problem. And things are usually good for quite a while after that. I really hope that's the case for you.

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In most instances I'd agree with you. But having used many brands of router, and many routers period, including Netgear routers, I can confidently say this is the most trouble I've ever had with a router product. My previous Asus router didn't have any issues beyond not quite covering my home. The D-Link that preceded it was great for the couple years I had it. The Linksys before that was decent, too. None of them had the major stability issues that the Orbi seems to have. Even DD-WRT was more stable during the years I ran it.

Dunno. I just have higher expectations from a $400 product. I'm more or less happy with it, despite my complaints, because when it works it is faster and smoother than anything I've used before. That doesn't mean Netgear gets a free pass for releasing a buggy product, or for its complete silence publicly about the issues the hardware faces.

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RogerSC wrote:

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Hmmm...I replied to this posting already, my reply seems to have disappeared. So I'll try again *smile*.

 

Sometimes when a router is flashed, memory corruption can result. What the user sees is problematic behavior, and if they were to get in touch with Netgear support, one of the first things that's suggested is to reset to factory defaults, and re-enter the user's configuration. It is common practice with consumer routers that if problems arise after a firmware update flash, manual or automatic, that the router is reset and reconfigured. While Netgear would like this not to happen, I'm sure, it really does happen and there's not much that Netgear can do about it. Kind of a random occurance for the level of hardware that consumers are willing and able to pay for.

 

So your experience, while not fun, is part of the normal course of long term hardware use. I really hope that your router will be fine from here on out, but I've had to reset my Orbi units here once or twice as well due to problematic behavior, and that's just life. Most times when I do a factory default reset, it's because that's the most expedient way to fix a serious problem. And things are usually good for quite a while after that. I really hope that's the case for you.

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There is no reason for memory to become "corrupted" during a software update, nor is there any reason for settings to get broken or changed, beyond poor programming practices and/or quality assurance. If changes are big enough that old settings are incompatible then the update should reset settings, not just leave the router half-working The reason we continue to see this so much in consumer routers is the bar has already been set pretty damn low, and we've come to accept that it's normal.

To be clear, the issue nxc is having happens every single time you upgrade to 1.2 or 2.X from an earlier version. It's a defect in the update process that should be obvious if they were testing correctly and it's an issue that I raised with them well over a month ago. It also requires a NVRAM reset, not just a factory reset to resolve.

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scornwell wrote: 

To be clear, the issue @nxc is having happens every single time you upgrade to 1.2 or 2.X from an earlier version. It's a defect in the update process that should be obvious if they were testing correctly and it's an issue that I raised with them well over a month ago. It also requires a NVRAM reset, not just a factory reset to resolve.

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My updates to v1.2 and v2.x were fine, no problems, no need for any settings changes, so it doesn't happen for every update...it is apparently happening to enough people, though, that we're reading about it a lot *smile*. I don't agree about memory corruption as a result of the flashing process, that happens and will continue to happen, as I said, with the consumer-level hardware, my Orbi included. Just because you pay $400 for your router, that doesn't mean that you're getting enterprise level hardware, in this case that means that you're getting more consumer level hardware. You get 2 solid units in the basic Orbi package, which accounts for a good part of the higher price. The fact that when the Orbi works right it provides great wireless, and it has worked well for me nearly all the time I've had it, also makes it worth a little more than the cost of parts to me *smile*.

Anyways, I don't like to argue, I think that we're just going to have to disagree on this one. I don't excuse firmware bugs, by the way, I do excuse problems that happen because the hardware isn't targeted to the enterprise, since I'm not paying an enterprise price for it. I was specifically talking about resetting to factory defaults after a flash, not giving Netgear a pass for firmware bugs by any means. And yes, all router manufacturers should be testing as well as they can manage, and any problems that happen once should not happen again, since regression testing is one of the most important parts of mfr. testing.

I feel that I should add that the Orbi has worked well for me nearly the whole time I've had it, since late last year. I don't do exotic stuff with my router and wireless, but reliability, performance, and wireless coverage are important to me. The Orbi has delivered that for me, I'm sorry that others have had such difficult experiences. Yes, there was functionality that I miss removed from V1.12, but the basics of performance and reliability were still there for me. Again, I'm sorry that too many people had real problems with v1.12.

OK.  I tried to update using the beta version.  Everything seemed to upload OK; however, I'm still showing V1.12.0.18 for both the router and sats.  What am I doing wrong?

RogerSC That's because you're not using VLAN tagging and don't have a gigabit internet connection to test against. It does happen for every update, under the right circumstances. It's a consistently reproducible software defect. 

If the issue was memory corruption, the Orbi wouldn't have specific, reproducible issues, it likely wouldn't function at all.

I've been developing software for over 20 years, including controllers for aerial and submersible drones and other embedded systems. Memory doesn't just randomly corrupt in the way you're suggesting and there are ways of ensuring software updates are applied as intended.

This has nothing to do with enterprise vs consumer hardware, it's a software quality assurance issue and it shouldn't happen.

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scornwell wrote:

RogerSC That's because you're not using VLAN tagging and don't have a gigabit internet connection to test against. It does happen for every update, under the right circumstances. It's a consistently reproducible software defect. 

 

If the issue was memory corruption, the Orbi wouldn't have specific, reproducible issues, it likely wouldn't function at all.

 

I've been developing software for over 20 years, including controllers for aerial and submersible drones and other embedded systems. Memory doesn't just randomly corrupt in the way you're suggesting and there are ways of ensuring software updates are applied as intended.

This has nothing to do with enterprise vs consumer hardware, it's a software quality assurance issue and it shouldn't happen.

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I agree with your point about how I use a router, that's why I mentioned that I don't do anything exotic. 

By the way, I've worked for 45 years with computer software development and hardware, mostly on the enterprise end in OS design work and release engineering. HP, EMC, Intel, etc. I can't agree with you on your "memory corruption is only a software issue" point, that isn't my experience with flashing routers. So it goes.

No more from me on this one.

Please - somebody tell me what I'm doing wrong.  I'm typing this quickly, because I don't know when this Orbi is going to drop my connection again.  I tried to update my satellites and then my router to the beta.  Obviously, it didn't take, because it is still showing V1.12.0.18 on all devices.  I've done a reset on all three devices, but have not done the NVRAM erase settings since before trying the update.  Since trying to update, I'm in the same boat.  Satellites dropping in and out, connections to WiFi devices holding for 30 seconds to a minute or two and then dropping.  I disconnected the satellites again, and that seems to make it more stable.  If I can't resolve this tonight, then I have to go router shopping tomorrow. 

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RogerSC wrote:

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scornwell wrote:

RogerSC That's because you're not using VLAN tagging and don't have a gigabit internet connection to test against. It does happen for every update, under the right circumstances. It's a consistently reproducible software defect. 

 

If the issue was memory corruption, the Orbi wouldn't have specific, reproducible issues, it likely wouldn't function at all.

 

I've been developing software for over 20 years, including controllers for aerial and submersible drones and other embedded systems. Memory doesn't just randomly corrupt in the way you're suggesting and there are ways of ensuring software updates are applied as intended.

This has nothing to do with enterprise vs consumer hardware, it's a software quality assurance issue and it shouldn't happen.

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I agree with your point about how I use a router, that's why I mentioned that I don't do anything exotic. 

 

By the way, I've worked for 45 years with computer software development and hardware, mostly on the enterprise end in OS design work and release engineering. HP, EMC, Intel, etc. I can't agree with you on your "memory corruption is only a software issue" point, that isn't my experience with flashing routers. So it goes.

 

No more from me on this one.

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I never said memory corruption is only a software issue, so please don't present it as a quote. What I'm saying is memory corruption doesn't manifest like this and, if reproducible by applying a software change, can be avoided by changing that process. And even if corruption was happening, there are plenty of means of determining whether a software update has applied correctly and if not, alerting the user or rolling back. I've written, tested and pushed these sorts of updates many hundreds of times. 

VLAN tagging really isn't exotic, it's common for fibre and cable connections.

Anyway, it's not my intention to turn this into an argument, I think we agree that it's not acceptable that users have to telnet to their routers to get them back into a working state after an update, and that this whole crazy process has been taking way too long. 

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DarrellRiffe wrote:

Please - somebody tell me what I'm doing wrong. 

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It's pretty difficult to know what you've done wrong without knowing what youv'e actually done or what you did it to.

What hardware are you using and what process did you follow for the update?