Re: Orbi RBR50 router randomly disconnects/blocks internet for the whole network.

espcar · ‎2019-08-27

Multiple versions of the firmware, now latest: 2.3.5.30, at least also 2.3.1.60. Probably also 2.3.1.48 and 2.3.1.44 (don't remember exactly, as I blamed the isp in the start).
Also notice that I'm running Circle and Armor on the router (bought license for both).

So, the story started with random disconnects lasting up to 10 mins before automatically resolving. This was firmware 2.3.1.60. This was when I was still on my 90 day support, so I talked to support.
I ended up trying the whole recipe for fixes, i.e.

Power cycle router and both satelites (didn't fix it)
manually installing the same firmware from a laptop connected to the switch in both satelites and router (didn't fix it)
Factory reset - partially fixed the issue. I still got "disconnects", but they only lasted 10-20 seconds instead of 10 minutes.
Also, it broke the router, as when you enabled Circle, it crashed after a few mins, so next time you checked parent control, circle was disabled.
I was offered a RMA for the router (but I did not use it yet, as I'm certain this is a software issue).
Fixed the circle issue after a while when Circle suddenly couldn't find my config and offered me to start a new one.

I asked the CS person if there was some way to continue debugging the router, as I had no access to SSH or advanced menus in the UI.

No response.

Luckily, I found the topic on hidden features for the router on this forum.

This made it possible for me to enable Telnet (why not SSH???).

Armed with shell access to the router, I did some lite debugging.

And this is what I found:

When I'm "disconnected" from internet, i.e. nothing working from any machine, including any machine connected directly to the switch in the router (so no connection issue between the satelites and router), I'm still able to access internet from the shell on the router.

This leads me to think that the "disconnects" I read about on this forum isn't disconnects, but network blocking from the router.

When I looked at it, the routing table had not changed before and while "blocking" was happening.

I'm not 100% certain, but it looked like IPTables wasn't changed either.

I have also disabled Armor to test a theory that it might have been Armor causing the issue, but disabling it didn't make any change other than alot less CPU usage on the router (verified using top).

Would be interresting if some dev could give some feedback on what data they would like me to produce to help debug and fix the issue, because it's pretty anoying having a router randomly blocking you from the internet.

FURRYe38 · ‎2019-08-27

What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.

After a factory reset, and if you don't enable Armor and Circle, does the RBR still experience these disconnections?

espcar · ‎2019-08-27

The Orbi is connected to a fiber -> ethernet/coax (for TV) splitter.

No modem.

This splitter is branded "Canal Digital", but have no number.

ISP is Telenor.

Question is what does any of your questions have to do with my issue, as I've confirmed that the issue also occurs when directly connected to the switch in the Orbi router (no wifi used at all). But to humor you:

We count in Square meters. 3 floors and totally 162sqm, google tells me this is 1722,23 sqf.

All neighbours have wifi, however, I see only like max 4 within my range.

I'm reluctant to do a factory reset, as it's alot of work to get everything back up and running.

Like if I do a factory reset and upload my config again, it beats the reasoning for doing a factory reset.

I can tell you however that after the last factory reset I did when I had my CS case, it took about 2 days until I saw the issue again.
Usually, I see it daily.

I can tell you that I did disable armor yesterday (did not fix it).

And I did disable Circle like two hours ago,
I can update tomorrow with new status if that fixed it.

Also notice, I try to only do one thing at the time to help pinpoint what fixes the issue.

I tell you though, the reasoning for disabling armor before circle was that the router have internet access (when using ping from the router shell), while the rest of the network does not.
Or to simplify:

Anything inside that the router serves (wifi or ethernet) can ping the router but not the ISP GW. at the same time, the router can ping the ISP GW.
Also at the same time this is happening, I'm able to ping the ISP GW directly from any equipmet I connect to my Asus router that I also connect to the fibre->ethernet splitter.

Last piece of information: The fastest way to recover from the "blocking" is to open the router ui, click the internet link in the basic menu, then click "Test".

It seems this is doing a dhcp release/refresh, as this always give me a new IP.

FURRYe38 · ‎2019-08-27

Sometimes Wifi can effect the router as if there is noise or interference, the RBR may reboot on it's own to find a more clear channel. Thus giving this disconnect. Thought it should come back online. Reason for asking about this...

Possible that you have a issue between the RBR and this ISP ethernet/coax switch. Possible lease time is running out and the RBR is failing to get a new IP address on it's own correctly from the ISP service box.

Are you seeing a public IP address on the RBR? ##.##.###.### or a private IP address on the WAN side of the RBR? 192 or maybe 10.something?

A factory reset should be performed and this time, dont' enable any Armor, Circle, Traffic Meter, QOS or Access Controls and see if the issue still appears. Do a backup configuration to file first.

Also swap out LAN cables between the RBR and ISP service box. CAT6 is recommended.

espcar · ‎2019-08-27

Q: When this reboot to find more clear channel occurs, wouldn't ethernet also be DC'ed? And I loose my telnet connection to the Orbi router?

I'm seeing a public address, so no doubble NAT here.

LAN cable is already swapped out when talking to the Customer Service.

Q; If there is an issue between the RBR and the ISP, then why am I still able to reach my ISP from the RBRi but not from any device connected to it?

Also notice that the fibre->ethernet device is not a router, it's just a fibre termination device. The router that provides the GW is at the ISP.

FURRYe38 · ‎2019-08-27

@espcar wrote:
Q: When this reboot to find more clear channel occurs, wouldn't ethernet also be DC'ed? And I loose my telnet connection to the Orbi router? Yes, supposidly.

I'm seeing a public address, so no doubble NAT here. Ok.

LAN cable is already swapped out when talking to the Customer Service. Ok.

Q; If there is an issue between the RBR and the ISP, then why am I still able to reach my ISP from the RBRi but not from any device connected to it? So the RBR is getting services from the ISP? How are you determining this?

Also notice that the fibre->ethernet device is not a router, it's just a fibre termination device. The router that provides the GW is at the ISP. Ok.

ThrasherDawg · ‎2019-08-28

Having this exact same problem. Strange thing about it, is that it is affecting my Macbook Pro the most, almost unusable. iPhones and other devices fairing better, except for our Sonos. We also have a Sonos audio system that I am a beta tester for them. Had lots of discnnects and so I submitted a diagnostic to them and even though my Sonos speakers are wired (ethernet) the Sonos devs could see from the logs that they were showing tons of disconnects. Hope this gets figuyred out quickly or I'll be going back to my old Linksys

Vest1968 · ‎2019-08-28

Joining in.... I just installed Orbi, and I am experiencing lots of disconnects.... Chose it over Ubiquity, speeds are mind-blowing, but disconnects makes me furious and wonder if I chose wrong!

On most Devs I see missing connections, after a few seconds they connect but I am tired of seeing "no internet" messages, and only had it running a few weeks....

Fix it or I'm returning my gear!

FURRYe38 · ‎2019-08-28

What Firmware is currently loaded? Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last update?

What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.

Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

Does the system work with SONOS fully turned OFF?

@ThrasherDawg wrote:
Having this exact same problem. Strange thing about it, is that it is affecting my Macbook Pro the most, almost unusable. iPhones and other devices fairing better, except for our Sonos. We also have a Sonos audio system that I am a beta tester for them. Had lots of discnnects and so I submitted a diagnostic to them and even though my Sonos speakers are wired (ethernet) the Sonos devs could see from the logs that they were showing tons of disconnects. Hope this gets figuyred out quickly or I'll be going back to my old Linksys

back-to-reality · ‎2019-08-29

Disable Circle. That fixed it for me

FURRYe38 · ‎2019-08-29

Glad that worked for you. Seen odd issues with Armor and Circle.

Thanks for letting us know.

@back-to-reality wrote:
Disable Circle. That fixed it for me

espcar · ‎2019-08-29

@FURRYe38 wrote:
@espcar wrote:
Q: When this reboot to find more clear channel occurs, wouldn't ethernet also be DC'ed? And I loose my telnet connection to the Orbi router? Yes, supposidly.

I'm not experiencing DC between the RBR and any device on my network.
When I "loose connection" it's like the router just stops routing.
I can access telnet from the router.

Q; If there is an issue between the RBR and the ISP, then why am I still able to reach my ISP from the RBRi but not from any device connected to it? So the RBR is getting services from the ISP? How are you determining this?

Yes, Telnet to the RBR enabled with the hidden debug menu, ping GW or even the google DNS'es.
The same IPs I can ping from the telnet interface of the RBR, I can't access from ANY device on my network when the issue occurs.

Did this clear things?

Also, I did not do a factory reset after my previous post as you asked for.

I just disabled circle on the router.

So most certainly, this issue is a bug in Circle.

It's been like one and a half day since I disabled Circle and I haven't experienced "DC/Block" after that.

However, Circle was one of the reasons for selecting Orbi, so...

Plan now is to re-enable armor maybe tomorrow, and see if DCs come back.

And then in a few more days re-enable circle to confirm the observations.

I'm open for running firmware with additional logging or something to help the devs determine the issue so it can be fixed.

espcar · ‎2019-08-29

@back-to-reality wrote:
Disable Circle. That fixed it for me

Unfortunately, I payed for the service as I need it for the small kids at home 🙂

back-to-reality · ‎2019-08-29

Just an idea: you could try to set all devices that you don´t need to monitor as "unmanaged" in Circle and just leave the kids devices. Maybe that would reduce the load on the CPU and may help.

Also, I suppose you can disable it temporary just to see if it solves the disconnects and then decide what you do next.

FURRYe38 · ‎2019-08-29

I would post about any Circle issue and log collection over in the Circle forum. Hopefully your log collection and such will be helpful to them. You might contact one of the forum moderators there as well:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Circle-Smart-Parental-Controls/bd-p/en-home-circle

@espcar wrote:
@FURRYe38 wrote:
@espcar wrote:
Q: When this reboot to find more clear channel occurs, wouldn't ethernet also be DC'ed? And I loose my telnet connection to the Orbi router? Yes, supposidly.

I'm not experiencing DC between the RBR and any device on my network.
When I "loose connection" it's like the router just stops routing.
I can access telnet from the router.

Q; If there is an issue between the RBR and the ISP, then why am I still able to reach my ISP from the RBRi but not from any device connected to it? So the RBR is getting services from the ISP? How are you determining this?

Yes, Telnet to the RBR enabled with the hidden debug menu, ping GW or even the google DNS'es.
The same IPs I can ping from the telnet interface of the RBR, I can't access from ANY device on my network when the issue occurs.
Did this clear things?
Also, I did not do a factory reset after my previous post as you asked for.
I just disabled circle on the router.

So most certainly, this issue is a bug in Circle.
It's been like one and a half day since I disabled Circle and I haven't experienced "DC/Block" after that.
However, Circle was one of the reasons for selecting Orbi, so...

Plan now is to re-enable armor maybe tomorrow, and see if DCs come back.
And then in a few more days re-enable circle to confirm the observations.

I'm open for running firmware with additional logging or something to help the devs determine the issue so it can be fixed.

Retired_Member · ‎2019-08-29

@espcar wrote:
@back-to-reality wrote:
Disable Circle. That fixed it for me
Unfortunately, I payed for the service as I need it for the small kids at home 🙂

or you could get rid of 2.3.5.30

espcar · ‎2019-08-29

@back-to-reality wrote:
Just an idea: you could try to set all devices that you don´t need to monitor as "unmanaged" in Circle and just leave the kids devices. Maybe that would reduce the load on the CPU and may help.

The block/disconnect affects both managed and unmanaged devices.

Like the TV, the alarm, the cable decoder had to be set to unmanaged to be able to function.

And one of my PCs are unmanaged, just to see if there are difference.

It could be that this started after I bought the full version of the Circle software, so I could add bedtime and so for the kids devices.

espcar · ‎2019-08-29

@Retired_Member wrote:
@espcar wrote:
@back-to-reality wrote:
Disable Circle. That fixed it for me
Unfortunately, I payed for the service as I need it for the small kids at home 🙂
or you could get rid of 2.3.5.30

Oh, if that worked, I'd done it 😄

However, as stated in the OP, I had the issues with 2.3.1.60 also. That was the FW I was running when I had my customer service case (i.e. before my 90 days was out).

back-to-reality · ‎2019-08-29

It's not the full version. I had this issue while trying out Circle with the free version. If you enabled shell access, you could try to watch the CPU load during the disconnects, to confirm if it's related to CPU overload or rather a routing problem.

Also, I wonder if the filtering is done all locally, or if there's some kind of communication with an external server, which could stall the filter if the external server was unreachable...

But this is getting way to technical. From a customer point of view, it just doesn´t work. I'd ask for a refund if I would have payed for Circle. As a paying customer, I am not supposed to spend my time trying to fix things. They should either work or be free. I miss the Apple routers...

drtrotter74 · ‎2019-11-13

I have been having this same issue, and I am not using either Circle or Armor anymore. I lose both wired and wifi connections about every hour or so, sometime more.......sometimes less. No idea what is causing this......makes no sense. But it does sound like an internal issue with the routing, since it affect both types of connections....

FURRYe38 · ‎2019-11-13

What Firmware is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Try disabling the following and see:
Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update?

@drtrotter74 wrote:
I have been having this same issue, and I am not using either Circle or Armor anymore. I lose both wired and wifi connections about every hour or so, sometime more.......sometimes less. No idea what is causing this......makes no sense. But it does sound like an internal issue with the routing, since it affect both types of connections....

drtrotter74 · ‎2019-11-14

Ha.......appreciate the inquiry. But have seen all of this before. I can summarize. I have tried about 4 or 5 different firmwares, moving back and forth.......on router and stellite. Factory resets before and after each re-load. I have used debug config to disable upgrade, and collect logs. I have tried every iteration of every setting there is on every menu, and nothing has worked. without fail, I drop internet on all connections (wired and wifi) several times a day, and it lasts anywhere from 10 seconds to a couple minutes. It's very strange.

I collected those timestamps and contacted my ISP provide (Spectrum Cable), and asked them to view my cable modem status and logging. They ssaid there were no interuptions to my signal and no ISP issues during these times of disconnect. I can confirm also that I connected directly to modem with a laptop for a couple hours and did not experience and discos either.

As of last night, I did a final factory reset, and allowed Orbi to just use the default SSID and password, and I left a work VPN connected all night.......as of this morning I see no reconnect messages for last 8 hours.

If this ends up being the resolution.....I am truly mystified. A $200 wifi setup that can't handle a name/password change? Ridiculous.

I can live with this being the resolution, but I can't believe all the time and effort wasted on config and firmware upgrades, that this is still an issue with the system.

I would have to think that there is some internal setting that tries to reset itself or reference the factory default wifi setting, and that causes a hiccup every so often? If so, come on Netgear, this should be fixable.........

drtrotter74 · ‎2019-11-14

oh, and to answer the specific questions.....this is a 3200 sq ft home.......and cable modem and orbi are about 5 feet apart (new CAT cable). Orbi satellite is about 50 feet from router through 2 walls. Not sure why router and sat distance would affect the wired connections though, since the wired connections dont use the wifi, only the internal ORBI switch.

FURRYe38 · ‎2019-11-14

So that happens if you change the SSID and PW after now you have used the default SSID.

There have been odd issues seen after FW updates. Some users have good experiences after FW updates and don't have problems, while others do. A factory reset is last resort for these after troubleshooting has been exhausted. Seems to be the case for you since you reset and setup from scratch, this has resolve your problem. Seems to point to a mis-configuration or somehing got in a bad state after a FW update or the configuration change is all. I prefer to manually install my FW and always factory reset and setup from scratch or load a backup configuration from file. This saves time.

Try changing the SSID name and PW, save and apply then reboot both RBR and RBS. Check to see if the problem appears again.

@drtrotter74 wrote:
Ha.......appreciate the inquiry. But have seen all of this before.   I can summarize. I have tried about 4 or 5 different firmwares, moving back and forth.......on router and stellite. Factory resets before and after each re-load.    I have used debug config to disable upgrade, and collect logs. I have tried every iteration of every setting there is on every menu, and nothing has worked. without fail, I drop internet on all connections (wired and wifi) several times a day, and it lasts anywhere from 10 seconds to a couple minutes.   It's very strange.

I collected those timestamps and contacted my ISP provide (Spectrum Cable), and asked them to view my cable modem status and logging. They ssaid there were no interuptions to my signal and no ISP issues during these times of disconnect. I can confirm also that I connected directly to modem with a laptop for a couple hours and did not experience and discos either.

As of last night, I did a final factory reset, and allowed Orbi to just use the default SSID and password, and I left a work VPN connected all night.......as of this morning I see no reconnect messages for last 8 hours.

If this ends up being the resolution.....I am truly mystified. A $200 wifi setup that can't handle a name/password change?   Ridiculous.

I can live with this being the resolution, but I can't believe all the time and effort wasted on config and firmware upgrades, that this is still an issue with the system.

I would have to think that there is some internal setting that tries to reset itself or reference the factory default wifi setting, and that causes a hiccup every so often?   If so, come on Netgear, this should be fixable.........

drtrotter74 · ‎2019-11-14

I think there is some confusion.......I have never ever tried to use the ORBI with the default SSID and password, because that seems like a ridiculous requirement. I have always setup my router with the SSID/password I had used in the past.

Over the last few months, I have tried all iterations of factory reset with various firmwares, and various settings. I have done reboots and resets and followed all the published guidance. I consistently have had disconnect issues with all flavors, despite all these recommended changes, reboots, resets, and upgrades.

Last night was the first time I did a completely clean factory reset on firmware 2.3.5.30 and just let ORBI use all its own default settings.

So far, for about 10 hours, it has been stable......with no disconnects. We shall see.

I am not wanting to change the SSID/password until I see that this actualy seems to be working 100%, and then I will switch after a few days and see if the bad behaviour comes back.