Orbi WPA3 protocol

[hunterpav]

Looking to purchase an Orbi system in 2018. When will the Orbi use the new WPA3 wifi protocol ?

[eljarviso]

Probably not for a long time.  WPA3 is not expected to be released to manufacturers until "late 2018".  After release it will probably take a while to so it in products.  Past experiences with high-end enterprise stuff usually sees new standards appear in products 9-12 months after release to manufacturer.

[smartsurfer]

WPA3 has been ratified ... https://www.cnet.com/news/wpa3-wi-fi-is-here-and-its-harder-to-hack/

[DavidUnboxed]

With the vast security improvements announced by the Wi-Fi Alliance, I would like to see optional support to trial on RBR50 & RBS50s for WPA3-Personal, WPA3 Enterprise, Wi-FI CERTIFIED Easy Connect, and Wi-FI CERTIFIED Enhanced Open.  https://www.wi-fi.org/news-events/newsroom/wi-fi-alliance-introduces-wi-fi-certified-wpa3-security.

Kind Regards,
David Taylor, Certified Information System Security Professional
Microsoft Alumni / Oracle Employee.
Opinions expressed are my own and may not reflect the opinions of my current or past employers.

[FURRYe38]

 Requires support from chipset vendor. There's more than to just adding it to a router or device. It's supposedly been ratified, however doesn't mean it's being implemented now. Going to take some testing time and development on many levels to get it working for all current and new generation devices. Stars with encryption and chip set and FW mfrs. I would not expect anything this year. Maybe next.

[DavidUnboxed]

-

Of course it will take timefor a finished product - but I would expect to see some componets in trial/beta very soon since Qualcomm's IPQ8065 is already WPA3 certified according to https://www.wi-fi.org/product-finder-results?sort_by=default&sort_order=desc&categories=6&capabiliti....

What specific piece of this pie requires a new chipset?  I've not completed reading the spec yet but Cisco seems hopeful: 

"Meanwhile please stay tuned for an upcoming announcement that will highlight how to integrate WPA3 features into our Aironet Access Points and Wireless Controllers via a firmware upgrade so that our existing and new customers to take advantage of these new capabilities." https://blogs.cisco.com/wireless/greater-wi-fi-adoption-brings-the-need-of-higher-security.

David T.

[DavidUnboxed]

That certification icon is a bit subdued on their wi-fi org page.  Here is a direct link:  http://certifications.prod.wi-fi.org/pdf/certificate/public/download?cid=WFA63130.

[FURRYe38]

You'll need to contact the wifi certification org and the chipset mfrs to see if there is any more info on WPA3 progress. They are at the root and will have more info than the end product Mfrs will. I was told that it starts with the chipset Mfrs and there support. Broadcom, Intel, Ra-Link, etc. hold the chips. 

[DavidUnboxed]

To be clear, the links I posted are from the wifi certification org and the linked PDF shows the certification of Qualcomm's (a chipset manufacture) erference design based upon the IPQ8065 and Wi-Fi componet QCA9984/5.  As I recall, from a 2016 press release, Netgear selected Qualcomm to colaborate with on the Orbi.  A quick google seems to confirm Orbi RBR50 & RBS50 uses Qualcomm's IPQ4019, the same as Velope.  Hopefully Netgear is ahead of the game and can quickly determine if Orbi will support WPA3.  Suave buyers will consider a support plan for the same in choosing their solutions.

[FURRYe38]

Good Luck.

[DavidUnboxed]

I don't need luck.  Either Netgear will be able to enhance the firmware in Orbi to accomodate these new things or they will not.  I am already a consumer of Orbi - an having recently aquired I am more apt to IPSEC my network than I am to buy another solution for my home soon.  However, if Netgear wishes to remain competitive and on my list of recommendations to colleagues, friends, and family - they will need a support statement regarding it.

[FURRYe38]

Im sure NG will be updating to WPA3. Just ALL the rest of the router and device Mfrs. Just when is the big question. All comes down to chipset vendors, implementation, developement and testing. Maybe a while though. Realistically, it's not happening over night.

[DavidUnboxed]

I did not realize you expected it to happen overnight.  I don't know where you got that idea.  I certainly never said such or would expect it.  Based upon my experience having worked for 3 fortune 100 companies that make devices with firmware - that idea is insanity. 

What is not insanity is expressing my hopes that Netgear is ahead in the game with an initial release near the front of the line, an option to alow customers willing to push the bleeding edge to be a guinipig test group, and communicates quickly about prospect of the device supporting the new standards.  Some of us have a much higher tolerence for such than others.

This is certainly not unreasonable and certainly not pie in the sky thinking. 

Nevertheless, if a family member or friend asks which router they should buy today while I am a great fan of Orbi - I cannot recommend it.  If their router is down they will be advised to acquire one of my old routers from the pile in my garage and/or a cheap alternative if it can meet the needs while they await support statements from the vendors.
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David T.

[FURRYe38]

Good Luck.

[Cmo1]

You are giving them way too much credit.  They don't even have the orbi operating correctly now with soooooooo many things including QOS, wired backhaul, etc. Proper selection of the right device and band when connecting to wifi.  Let's have them get this stuff fixed first or I can guarantee even if wpa3 is in Beta, it won't work.  While Netgear has top notch hardware and generally I've loved their products, the firmware on this product is either written by total idiots, or they just don't care.  And when it comes to tech support, if you are outside your purchase window, forget it unless you pay hundreds more for something you already paid hundredds for to begin with and they still won't fix it.

[DavidShawP]

None of the consumer router manufacturers have issued any statements on this.  None of the laptops or mobile devices you can buy today support WPA3.

https://www.howtogeek.com/339765/what-is-wpa3-and-when-will-i-get-it-on-my-wi-fi/

The Wi-FI Alliance hasn’t announced anything about existing devices receiving WPA3 support yet, but we don’t expect that many devices will receive software or firmware updates to support WPA3. Device manufacturers could theoretically create software updates that add these features to existing routers and other Wi-Fi devices, but they’d have to go through the trouble of applying for and receiving WPA3 certification for their existing hardware before rolling out the update. Most manufacturers will likely spend their resources on developing new hardware devices instead.

Even when you get a WPA3-enabled router, you’ll need WPA3-compatible client devices—your laptop, phone, and anything else that connects to Wi-Fi—to fully take advantage of these new features. The good news is that the same router can accept both WPA2 and WPA3 connections at the same time. Even when WPA3 is widespread, expect a long transition period where some devices are connecting to your router with WPA2 and others are connecting with WPA3.

[DavidShawP]

I googled this, because I was curious, and I did find an unattributed statement from Netgear here:

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/better-news-about-wpa3-device-support.47434/

I can't say for sure where they got the quote from, but it's promising if true.

[DavidUnboxed]

Nice find, David.  'The "will they/won't they" (upgrade existing stuff) question now boils down to how vendors view the priority of supporting existing products vs. pumping out new stuff.'

- this is exactly why I made my original post on this thread. Not because I lack knowledge about the topic by any means.  I have been working with wireless communication technologies in one form or another since I was a teenager in the mid 1980s.  I remember quite well when WEP (1997), WPA (2003), and WPA2(2011) were released - and how long it took for past changes to roll out to consumers.  I am watching propogration of this to the consumer closer than I did the release of Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum the 902-928 Mhz and 2.4Ghz bands when it was finally released to the public allowing me to talk about technology otherwise undiscussed due to the classified nature of any equipment I might have mentioned with it at the time. 

While there are clearly some dissatisfied customers in this forum voicing dismay here, I believe Netgear needs to hear what their customers apt to recommend their product to other consumers want - so they can plan accordingly.  This is not to imply that I think the customers complaining have valid grip about issues.  I have had only minor setup issues myself despite the 'you'll see soon' messages.  My presumption is NetGear has more one developer and uses code checkout so that only one or one team working in cohort can work on a segment at a time.  If that the case, I see no reason they could not if they want develop more than one part of it at a time.  However, I admit, while I have first hand knowledge of how other software companies handle this, I have no real knowledege about Netgears shop.  I presume it must be top notch to handle their product load at the quality I see.

Unless something has changed, it is not required to be certified to impliment the new standard. Stepping up the wireless backhaul would be a good method for Netgear to get their feet wet with it in test without pissing off the less tolerant consumers, if they make it an opt-in trial.  Having WPA3 on the backhaul will make the device still usable for me, even if the front end is not able to support it.  A good protion of my network is wired to the Orbi switches and using that backhaul.  And, no doubt, if Orbi does support it - I will stand up a separate older device to isolate traffic from those legacy devices that are not upgraded yet. to attatching with a different router for isolation on my network.