Re: RBR50 Can't check for firmware updates

pbarham · ‎2021-02-22

My RBR50 no longer seems to be able to check for firmware updates and says "Service Unreachable":

Any ideas on how to fix this?

CrimpOn · ‎2021-02-22

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plemans · ‎2021-02-22

What modem/gateway are you connected to?

pbarham · ‎2021-02-22

Standard Xfinity Xfi supplied cable modem ... (with its WiFi access point functionality turned off). That seems to be working just fine for everything else.

vajim · ‎2021-02-22

how are you checking...pc login or app?

plemans · ‎2021-02-22

Turning off the wifi doesn't turn off the router functions of the xfinity equipment. It puts you in a double nat.

What is Double NAT? | Answer | NETGEAR Support

it can cause issues.

How to fix issues with Double NAT | Answer | NETGEAR Support

pbarham · ‎2021-02-22

Yes, it's in 'Bridge Mode'

vajim · ‎2021-02-22

just a comment..when the OP used the words 'no longer' that sounds like it was working and now is not. In the case of a double NAT, that would have reared its ugly head from day one.

pbarham · ‎2021-02-22

@vajim wrote:
how are you checking...pc login or app?

Same with both. The screenshot was from the web admin interface.

If I use the iPhone app it says "checkig for update - this may take 5 minutes" and then tells me that checking for updates failed.

vajim · ‎2021-02-22

@pbarham wrote:
@vajim wrote:
how are you checking...pc login or app?
Same with both. The screenshot was from the web admin interface.
If I use the iPhone app it says "checkig for update - this may take 5 minutes" and then tells me that checking for updates failed.

perhaps reboot all...modem, router, router, sats....and see if that helps

pbarham · ‎2021-02-22

@vajim wrote:
just a comment..when the OP used the words 'no longer' that sounds like it was working and now is not. In the case of a double NAT, that would have reared its ugly head from day one.

That is correct. The Orbi had been working fine - and the firmware update checks used to work OK.

After various other problems I had with the router, I ended up needing to install specific firmware versions manually. At some point (i dind't notice when) the update check stopped working.

This problem has persisted across many power cycles/ reboots, and across more than one manual firmware update.

I am happy to install firmware manually - but don't check very often - and it concerns me that I may miss important security updates.

vajim · ‎2021-02-22

@pbarham wrote:
@vajim wrote:
just a comment..when the OP used the words 'no longer' that sounds like it was working and now is not. In the case of a double NAT, that would have reared its ugly head from day one.
That is correct. The Orbi had been working fine - and the firmware update checks used to work OK.
After various other problems I had with the router, I ended up needing to install specific firmware versions manually. At some point (i dind't notice when) the update check stopped working.

This problem has persisted across many power cycles/ reboots, and across more than one manual firmware update.

I am happy to install firmware manually - but don't check very often - and it concerns me that I may miss important security updates.

Security updates of any consequences are supposed to be pushed automatically. No user action required. If your system is working I'd let go.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-02-22

You can manually download and manually apply FW updates if you want too:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/New-Orbi-RBR50-Router-Firmware-Version-V2-7-2-104-Released/m-p...

https://kb.netgear.com/31573/How-do-I-manually-upgrade-firmware-on-my-Orbi-router-using-orbilogin-co...
https://kb.netgear.com/000037217/How-do-I-check-and-manually-upgrade-the-firmware-on-my-Orbi-satelli...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/RBR50-Have-You-Installed-V2-7-2-104/td-p/2055212/jump-to/first...

@pbarham wrote:
That is correct. The Orbi had been working fine - and the firmware update checks used to work OK.
After various other problems I had with the router, I ended up needing to install specific firmware versions manually. At some point (i dind't notice when) the update check stopped working.

This problem has persisted across many power cycles/ reboots, and across more than one manual firmware update.

I am happy to install firmware manually - but don't check very often - and it concerns me that I may miss important security updates.

vajim · ‎2021-02-22

@FURRYe38 wrote:
You can manually download and manually apply FW updates if you want too:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/New-Orbi-RBR50-Router-Firmware-Version-V2-7-2-104-Released/m-p...

https://kb.netgear.com/31573/How-do-I-manually-upgrade-firmware-on-my-Orbi-router-using-orbilogin-co...
https://kb.netgear.com/000037217/How-do-I-check-and-manually-upgrade-the-firmware-on-my-Orbi-satelli...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/RBR50-Have-You-Installed-V2-7-2-104/td-p/2055212/jump-to/first...
@pbarham wrote:
That is correct. The Orbi had been working fine - and the firmware update checks used to work OK.
After various other problems I had with the router, I ended up needing to install specific firmware versions manually. At some point (i dind't notice when) the update check stopped working.

This problem has persisted across many power cycles/ reboots, and across more than one manual firmware update.

I am happy to install firmware manually - but don't check very often - and it concerns me that I may miss important security updates.

Poster knows how to perform manual updates.

pbarham · ‎2021-02-22

@vajim wrote:

Security updates of any consequences are supposed to be pushed automatically. No user action required. If your system is working I'd let go.

That is precisely the functionality that I think isn't working. My router did not update to .104 automatically, and does not know that it exists.

My system *is* currently working OK from a functionality standpoint, and I would not normally update it unless there was a relevant looking bugfix.

vajim · ‎2021-02-22

@pbarham wrote:
@vajim wrote:

Security updates of any consequences are supposed to be pushed automatically. No user action required. If your system is working I'd let go.
That is precisely the functionality that I think isn't working. My router did not update to .104 automatically, and does not know that it exists.

My system *is* currently working OK from a functionality standpoint, and I would not normally update it unless there was a relevant looking bugfix.

I think the auto functionality is a perception of the user

you and others think since it missed a certain update it's broken, the reality may be that missed update wasn't as critical as some claim as least not within the first few months. Dozens of immediate firmware downloaders fall victim with each release

But it's your orbi you decide if it works or not

CrimpOn · ‎2021-02-22

@pbarham wrote:
@vajim wrote:

Security updates of any consequences are supposed to be pushed automatically. No user action required. If your system is working I'd let go.
That is precisely the functionality that I think isn't working. My router did not update to .104 automatically, and does not know that it exists.

This speaks to my complaint about transparency. The 2.7.2.104 Release Notes include "Fixes security issues", but makes no mention of which issues are fixed. Perhaps Netgear feels these issues are minor and there is no need to push an update. If they were serious issues, then maybe Netgear would push them. (or not?) That link to Netgear security (https://www.netgear.com/about/security/ ) goes to a page containing lists of vulnerabilities and which routers are (or were?) vulnerable. Nowhere does it say anything about which have been "fixed." Customers are left in the dark.

vajim · ‎2021-02-22

@CrimpOn wrote:
@pbarham wrote:
@vajim wrote:

Security updates of any consequences are supposed to be pushed automatically. No user action required. If your system is working I'd let go.
That is precisely the functionality that I think isn't working. My router did not update to .104 automatically, and does not know that it exists.
This speaks to my complaint about transparency. The 2.7.2.104 Release Notes include "Fixes security issues", but makes no mention of which issues are fixed. Perhaps Netgear feels these issues are minor and there is no need to push an update. If they were serious issues, then maybe Netgear would push them. (or not?) That link to Netgear security (https://www.netgear.com/about/security/ ) goes to a page containing lists of vulnerabilities and which routers are (or were?) vulnerable. Nowhere does it say anything about which have been "fixed." Customers are left in the dark.

I agree and at the end of day you're still going to have those who will download every possible firmware at the earliest opportunity. Most of this mindset may be holdback from previous experience with other devices OS etc. The average user most likely is not familiar with what constitutes a true security risk.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-02-22

https://kb.netgear.com/000062507/Security-Advisory-for-Unauthenticated-Command-Injection-Vulnerabili...

vajim · ‎2021-02-23

@FURRYe38 wrote:
https://kb.netgear.com/000062507/Security-Advisory-for-Unauthenticated-Command-Injection-Vulnerabili...

Meaningless

alokeprasad · ‎2021-02-23

Two apparently self-contradicting facts:

It has not been "firmly" established that NG will, in fact, push (download and install without user action) firmware updates that it thinks are important. They might have done that in the past, but there's no announcement or official word that this still applies.
There are annecdotes here that NG has pushed the latest firmware updates to some people. But it doesn't appear to be widespread. Does that mean that the update is important and they stopped because of the firmware or update process reliability issues?

As of now, it is up to each user to research and decide how important and widespread the security issues are. In some cases, NG documents the issues fixed, In others, it leaves it vague and generic "security issues".

Personally, I wait a few days, maybe a month to see if there are major bugs (or if a firnware is withdrawn) and then, I install it manually if it mentions "security issues". I'd rather do these updates on my schedule and under my command than have NG do ANYTHING automatically while I'm not looking.

vajim · ‎2021-02-23

@alokeprasad wrote:
Two apparently self-contradicting facts:
It has not been "firmly" established that NG will, in fact, push (download and install without user action) firmware updates that it thinks are important. They might have done that in the past, but there's no announcement or official word that this still applies.
There are annecdotes here that NG has pushed the latest firmware updates to some people. But it doesn't appear to be widespread. Does that mean that the update is important and they stopped because of the firmware or update process reliability issues?

As of now, it is up to each user to research and decide how important and widespread the security issues are. In some cases, NG documents the issues fixed, In others, it leaves it vague and generic "security issues".

Personally, I wait a few days, maybe a month to see if there are major bugs (or if a firnware is withdrawn) and then, I install it manually if it mentions "security issues". I'd rather do these updates on my schedule and under my command than have NG do ANYTHING automatically while I'm not looking.

I agree pretty much with what you say here. NG moderators here sent me a message awhile back confirming their auto-push position. As time goes on I'm leaning more and more toward there is no auto push. If this is true then users are left to their own devices. That is, it's a free for all. Download to your hearts content.

I tend to align more with your position and that is to wait, especially if my system is working. I've actually seen cases over time where a firmware will be released and it creates several new problems. Then after several months you download that same firmware (no the version number did not change) and it seems to be fine. The sad part is those you love to jump first end up in here crying in a few days. Not to mention those GURUs who know full well that the firmware has reported problems yet they continue to push it while stating "well it woked for me, what's wrong with your system."

pbarham · ‎2021-02-23

@vajim wrote:
@pbarham wrote:
@vajim wrote:

Security updates of any consequences are supposed to be pushed automatically. No user action required. If your system is working I'd let go.
That is precisely the functionality that I think isn't working. My router did not update to .104 automatically, and does not know that it exists.

My system *is* currently working OK from a functionality standpoint, and I would not normally update it unless there was a relevant looking bugfix.
you and others think since it missed a certain update it's broken, the reality may be that missed update wasn't as critical as some claim as least not within the first few months. Dozens of immediate firmware downloaders fall victim with each release

Did you read my original post or look at the screenshot?

It had nothing to do with "auto applying of update" ... I was asking why my router is *unable* to contact the Netgear servers to check what the current firmware version is, or to download it via the web interface or the app. The screenshot shows the error message I get when I click on "check for firmware update".

Yes, in an idea world it would also be nice to have security patches for zero-day vulnerabilities applied before my router gets compromised, but this is a MUCH more basic problem. It cannot contact the fimrware servers and the error message does not tell me why.

vajim · ‎2021-02-23

@pbarham wrote:
@vajim wrote:
Did you read my original post or look at the screenshot?

It had nothing to do with "auto applying of update" ... I was asking why my router is *unable* to contact the Netgear servers to check what the current firmware version is, or to download it via the web interface or the app. The screenshot shows the error message I get when I click on "check for firmware update".

Yes, in an idea world it would also be nice to have security patches for zero-day vulnerabilities applied before my router gets compromised, but this is a MUCH more basic problem. It cannot contact the fimrware servers and the error message does not tell me why.

Yes I read your original post

My guess is the reason your router is *unable* to contact the Netgear servers to check what the current firmware version is, or to download it via the web interface or the app is because its screwed up. I've seen the same or something similar for weeks. But I don't worry about it. Give it a few more days/weeks and they'll wake up.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-02-23

This would be a configuration your modem or ISP services not allowing Orbi to check it's FW update services.

I can check with mine and get thru just fine and works for me. My RBR is double NAT'd as well:

@pbarham wrote:
My RBR50 no longer seems to be able to check for firmware updates and says "Service Unreachable":

Any ideas on how to fix this?