Several Bugs found in installing a Orbi 970 system

[donawalt]

I just installed an Orbi 970 system, router and 2 satellites. I am on FW version 9.12.3.3. They went in place where a comparable Orbi 960 router and 2 satellites were. I set everything up by taking the 960s offline, having the 970 satellites close to the router via WiFi, then when complete moving them in place where there is wired backhaul. I do not have an IoT or Guest network.

All is working except I found several problematic issues:

1) On a 2024 iPad and iPhone, if they are set up to use a static IP address, they will not connect to WiFi under any circumstance! Automatic IP address generation works fine. 

2) The Backhaul network permanently shows in the list of available SSIDs for anyone! Yikes!

Things no longer in settings:

-  Email, schedule (no more auto email of the log file!), Blocked Sites, Blocked services are no longer under security tab:

3) No default channel selection for the 6GHz Channel - only the 2.4 and 5.

4) There is no default 6Ghz only network now

[FURRYe38]

1. I'll check this out. Please post steps to produce what your seeing. 

2. Is a known thing and not sure when NG will re-hid it. Been like this since the beginning of the 970 series. Just ignore it for now. 

3. Email was removed on the 970 series. I don't typically use Access controls however should be there unless SPC is enabled. Then all that is configured thru Orbi app. I'll check mine again. 

4. Not supported on the 970 series as it's appart of the main WLAN network. Was seen on the 960 series as a separate network as NG wanted to ensure users could get there 6Ghz devices connected at the time as 6Ghz was new, however 6Ghz was also with in the main WLAN so the separate 6Ghz network wasn't really needed, only if users needed it they had access only on the 960 series. I don't think it will be coming to the 970 series as a separate feature. 

[donawalt]

How to see the static IP problem (seems to require a late model iPad Pro 2024  or iPhone 15 Pro):

On the device go to Settings - tap Wifi - tap the your SSID name -> where it shows your connection WiFi, tap the 'i' to the right - scroll down to the section "Configure ipv4 address" - it shows Automatic. Tap automatic. there, tap Manual so the check mark goes to manual. Then a Manual IP address block appears, type an IP, Subnet, and router address, tap save. Once you do, WiFi connection is gone,. If you then go back in and set it to Automatic, WiFi will connect again.

My DHCP block is 192.168.1.2 -> .150, I had these at .156 and .155

Anyone with the latest model iPhone or iPad, can you try this?

[FURRYe38]

So static IP iphone 12 pro max iOS 17.5.1 doesn't exhibit this issue on a 770 series. I don't have my 970 series online at the moment. 

I recommend opening up a support ticket with NG support to let them know what your seeing. 

I've asked around to see if others can check this as well on there 970 series. 

[Roc1]

donawalt, are you trying to get your VPN static IP to work with the iPhone 15 pro max wifi setting instead of the using WiFi dhcp? What Subnet and Router IP did you use, same as your Orbi DHCP 971 values or your static IP subnet and router IP used for your VPN?

In your 971 GUI WiFi settings , it appears you’re using 192.168.1.X as your Private DHCP pool. Did you populate your static IP info (range, subnet, etc) in the 971 web GUI WiFi settings for the Public DHCP config area? If you manually assign a static IP to your 971 WiFi settings, the static IP parameters might need to be populated in those fields of the 971 config fields so the router understands what you’re trying to do.

Furrye38 is the expert, I know just enough to be dangerous. I’m just making a few suggestions to get you kids thought processes started.

[Roc1]

donawalt, sorry for this additional post. If you selected a “Static” IP out of your DHCP pool, and used the same router IP and Subnet as your 971 “DHCP” setting on the iPhone router settings in Manually Assign IP, I can try that on my iPhone 15 pro max with my 971. But, I don’t use VPN and I don’t have a separate block of Static IP’s I could try.

Also fyi, I rearranged location of one of my wired satellites late yesterday so it’s no longer pointed toward my 971 router (there were 2-walls and 50’+ between those two, so I didn’t think there would be interference between them, guess I was wrong) , I’m sitting in the location where I’ve always had an avalanche of WiFi drops and 5G cell flips, not a one so far in these two NG Community posts I’ve done!

Maybe our 971 stability/cell-flip issue is similar to that all important Real Estate basic premise -
LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!!

[FURRYe38]

FYI, Static IPs are set ON devices that are OUTSIDE of a default IP address pool range. Should never be with in the pool range, those are set for IP address Reservations that are set ON the router, not the device. VPN isn't configured for this issue seen with current versions of iPhones. 

[Roc1]

Furry, thanks for explaining that to me. Copy your last Reply on this subject to your Clipboard, I’ll probably ask donawalt the same questions in my next Reply in the next day or so, and a “Paste” explaining it (again) to me will save you some time!

[CrimpOn]

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@FURRYe38 wrote:

FYI, Static IPs are set ON devices that are OUTSIDE of a default IP address pool range. Should never be with in the pool range, those are set for IP address Reservations that are set ON the router, not the device

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Want to echo @FURRYe38 comment on static IP.  There are all sorts of situations when configuring devices with static IP address (subnet mask, gateway, DNS) can cause network issues. Such as:

• If the same IP address is configured on more than one device, which will lead to an ARP conflict.
• If the static IP address is assigned to some other device by the network DHCP server (Orbi router or whatever DHCP server is managing the network). Again, probably an ARP conflict.
• If the primary network subnet is changed, such as when the Orbi router is connected to a different router and automatically switches from 192.168.0.x to 10.0.0.x.  Any device with a static IP in  192.168.0.x will immediately lose internet.

[donawalt]

Thanks all. To address questions etc from @Roc1 , @CrimpOn , @FURRYe38 :

1. My DHCP range is 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.150.    Subnet is 255.255.255.0, router is 192.168.1.1.

2. I have a short list of static IP addressed devices, which Ikeep on a list - 8 of them. They start at 192.168.1.151. So I don't have any contention on static vs. automatic IP addresses.

3. @Roc1 I do not use VPN, never have.

4. So far I have found the way to eliminate the WiFi flips to 5G completely on a RBR960 is turn off WiFi 6E. I did eventually get flips even after moving the one satellite. I am now on an Orbi 970 system, after I see it run for a few days to make sure everything is ok I am going to turn 6E back on and see if that router handles it properly.

[Roc1]

@donawalt, thanks for providing me another router networking lesson! I finally understand your RBE/iPhone issue.

So, when I installed my RBE971 (it’s behind my ISP Gateway in Passthrough mode,) I elected to use 10.0.0.X as my RBE router’s DHCP IP format so I could reduce my confusion between the RBE and the ISP Gateway DHC pool of 192.168.1.X.

With that said, (I’ll have to look today when I get into the 971 Web GUI) I think I defined my RBE router DHCP pool of assignable IP’s as all 255 addresses, so I don’t currently have any “Private” (LAN) IPs outside my assignable pool like you do to see what my 971 does in a use case like yours to see how my router and iPhone 15 PM work (or not). I’ll check today.

As you can tell, I don’t feel comfortable doing many manual configs (the way you kept some LAN IP’s out of the assignable pool to use for static IP assignments). I never thought of that.

My Gateway (and the RBE 971) already had a config tab where I could “reserve” (I think that’s the word) LAN IP’s and make sure when their lease expired, those devices (and as I add devices, I add Lease reservations to that GUI config tab) would always be assigned the same LAN IP address.

I’m not sure if your “static” IP assignment is the better/preferred way of doing what I’ve tried to do with my Lease Reservations. Since you have 8 “static” LAN IP’s, you could try the Lease Reservation process I used as a work-around for the issue you are running into with 970 and iPhone since those 8 “static” LAN IP devices would then be using a DHCP pool IP?

I think I confused you, with another Community member who was doing something with a VPN. Also, not understanding Networking, I always thought, and associated “Static” IPs with VPN’s as I assumed (wrongly) that a VPN needed/used a “Static” IP. I also always associated Static IP’s with Public (WAN) assignments vs your Private LAN assignments. Sorry for my confusion.

On iPhone WiFi 6E setting, if you keep it turned off, your iPhone will never connect to the RBE with the newer (almost congestion free at this early band deployment stage) 6Ghz band, you will always connected with the 5Ghz band.

If you haven’t already tried this to see how a less congested channel might increase your 5Ghz WiFi speeds, I used the 971 GUI to select one of the new 5Ghz channels (outside the previous available range), but I understand enough about WiFi bands just to be dangerous. These 4 (or was it 5?) new channels are apparently still being used for non-WIFI users who were originally assigned those Channel frequencies by the FCC and they have not completed their move off those channels yet. There’s some verbiage I read somewhere that if you select one of those channels and it interferes with a non-WiFi user, (and I’m not sure how you know this, maybe the FCC Chairman knocks on your door??) either NG, (automatically changes you back into the original 5Ghz channel range??), or somehow you are notified and then you must go back into the 971web GUI and change your 5Ghz selected channel. Or, it might be as “simple” as, if you notice slower WiFi speeds using one of those channels, you will definitely want to change your selection.

[donawalt]

You don't have 2 different DHCp servers, the ISP Gateway and 971, do you? Bad idea if you do. You should change it to one or the other.

Static is different than reserved. I made static IP addresses because those units were making a lot of DHCP requests for IP, long before their lease expires. "DHCP flooding".  Probably still happens, but the devices that did, I gave them static addresses. If they got reserved addresses, that just tells the DHCP server what IP address to give to them and no one else - it would not stop DHCP flooding. With static addresses the dhCP server doesn't even know the device exists. FYI I have my 2 satellites on reserved addresses, so I always know how to get to their status and debug pages.

BTW you can easily shrink your DHCP window from say, .2 to .254, over to .2 to .150, and make a lot of addresses available that you can statically assign if you want. Nothing bad happens, and if a DHCP device client has a IP address outside the new range, the next time its lease expires, it will get an IP in the new range. Nothing will break by doing this.

I know all about 6 vs 5 GHz, for the little speed I am giving up (I get up to 900 Mbps on WiFi 5 vs. 1100 on WiFi 6 on those 2 devices), I don't have the devices popping into 5G cellular as I move around the house - which is totally annoying lol.

Look up Dynamic Frequency Selection if you want to learn more about the DSP channels. It's a little more automated than you surmised!

[donawalt]

@FURRYe38 we may have lost one of my noted differences between the 960 and 970 in my first post - the fact you cannot select a default 6GHz channel now. Any news on that?

[FURRYe38]

BE series will not have a separate 6Ghz network. 960 series was a one off to help ensure 6Ghz devices would connect back then. It's all automatic now. Not sure if NG will gives us 6Ghz channel selection.

[donawalt]

Maybe they reason the range is so short on 6GHz compared to 5GHz and 2.4GHz there's little chance of congestion from competing networks. 

I wonder if it ever changes off of 69...

[FURRYe38]

Something you can test, turn on your 960 series. Set it to a different SSID name. Change the channel to same as what the 970 is using. I'd set power to med or low on the 960. Put the 960 is same room or near the 970, 10 feet or more. Check the 970 to see what it's using. Might need a reboot of the 970 to see if it changes the channel to something different to avoid using same channel as the 960. 

[donawalt]

Yeah maybe, for the disruption not that interested lol. 

Plus, it might not be that easy - I have been reading about how channels are managed with WiFi 6E.

With my dumbed-down understanding, it appears (I could be wrong), that In Wi-Fi 6E, a process called fast passive scanning is being used to focus on a reduced set of channels called preferred scanning channels (PSC). This is because on the 6E bandwidth, there would be so much to scan with larger bandwidth etc., it might take multi-seconds to find a channel.

PSCs are a set of 15 20-MHz channels that are spaced every 80 MHz. So the Orbi router will set its primary channel, in this case 69, so that it can be easily discovered by a device, and devices will use passive scanning to find it a lot quicker.

That said, I am thinking it might take something significant to cause the Orbi to switch off 69 - especially in today's world where there are very few devices, if any, in a house that uses 6E and is pumping a lot of data so that congestion results. Also, with the short range of 6E, maybe congestion really plays a small part in switching the channel?

[FURRYe38]

Well possible. 
Maybe putting on the RBS as well from the 960 could force the 970 to change...If interference levels get too high...