Orbi setup with router that can’t be modem only

[Inkytog]

Please explain in plain (non-tech) language!

Following a lot of research I've come to have the following questions. This is hopefully answerable generally rather than knowing about the specific network supplied kit. 

I know the 5GEE new routers can't be put into modem only mode. However - it seems that you can still hook it to a Wifi system by either:

1) Running wifi system as Access Point (AP) mode only 

OR

2) Disable ALL wifi radios on the modem (easy!) then...
configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then (apparently) you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.

I wanted to look into option 2 so I can use my router's features - but is there any reason to NOT just use them as AP's and keep the EE 5G unit as it is?

I see on the config page that there's the option to turn on the DMZ - is this all i need to do (see attached) and where would I get this IP address from?

Should I also disable these on the ee box?

DHCP server

Enable NAT

[CrimpOn]

As to whether this is a good idea or not, only you can be the judge.  My position is that thousands of customers hook up their new WiFi system to the ISP box and 'never look back'.  Everything they want to do 'just works'.

When you research 'Double NAT', there are specific things that Double NAT interferes with.  If you want to do those things, then you have to eliminate the Double NAT.  If you don't, then you have a choice.

To use the DMZ method, the ee box must have DHCP on and give an IP address to the Orbi. This will appear in a device table on the ee box (somewhere in the menu).  It would be a good idea to assign the IP address so that every time it boots up it will get exactly the same one.

When you activate the DMZ option, it will ask for that IP address. (no point in asking until the option is selected).

Good Luck

[Inkytog]

Thank you - 
So.. essentially AP mode is pain free. Other method could give issues? 

If I did the DMZ method would there be a chance the IP address could change and therefore need updating at points?

Other than the orbi router features - is that what I'd be missing out on by just using the AP mode? I can probably live with that - I know I can disable my current Wifi and use Orbi - but would I have a guest wifi too if it's only AP mode? I assume it doesn't affect the Mesh coverage part of this?

To avoid double NAT - would disabling NAT stop this?

I can't see where to assign an IP address though. I see IP filtering etc but nowhere to assign it. I think EE have crippled this box!

[CrimpOn]

AP mode removes all 'router functions', which are a bunch:

https://kb.netgear.com/000061277/Disabled-Features-on-the-Orbi-when-set-to-AP-Mode 

If the ee box does not seem to have a method of assigning or reserving IP's for specific devices, you could use the option on the Orbi internet page to "Use a Static IP Address" and put in the value that the ee already gave the Orbi.

Orbi will continue to offer both the primary and Guest WiFi networks, but they will not be 'separated' from each other in AP mode.

(Some users want to quarantine their guests.  Others just want to give their guests an easy password to enter to get WiFi.)

[Inkytog]

Thanks so much - I think I get it. 

Ideally I'd want to be using the Orbi for as much as possible but it's sounding like a bit of a work around to get it to do so. 

If i go down the DMZ route .. Will any of these settings help or hinder this? I'm looking at the Double NAT situation!

[CrimpOn]

When the Orbi is in the DMZ and in router mode, it will be the only device connected to the ee router.  All other devices will connect to the Orbi and get their IP addresses from the Orbi DHCP.

Just personally, I would reset the ee DHCP parameters to be:

Gateway 192.168.0.1

DHCP Range 192.168.0.2 to 192.168.0.253

If the Orbi gets an IP address of 192.168.1.x on its WAN port, it will switch its own DHCP server to hand out IP's in the 10.0.0.1 subnet.

There is  nothing 'wrong' with this, but it will tend to confuse people when you report the 10 addresses (if you ever have occasion to).

Please report what happens.

[Inkytog]

This is a small home office network - no one will care about what the subnet is 🙂

So.. with your suggestion.. 
Do I still 'enable' nat on my modem/router or switch it to off but leave DHCP set on?

[CrimpOn]

I believe the NAT setting is irrelevant. The only device that could be NATted (a word?) is the Orbi router, and it bypasses the ISP router through the DMZ.

[Inkytog]

Ah ok.. i think i understand. 

Why these manufacturers dont just allow modem only mode is strange - what benefit do they get from not allowing that in the firmware. 

Anyway - the modem router is also quite new to market. it's a rebadged Zyxel modem router but it's not even out to purchase yet from Zy's website (no user manuals etc) and doesn't look like anyone has found loopholes to open up the modem only mode. 

On the EE forums there's people offering tips for their other boxes that also can't have modem only - and a few people have suggested the DMZ option, disable NAT and DCHP, turn off wifi then connect the LAN of the EE box to WAN of orbi and that may work. They say it's trying to get it as near to modem only mode as possible. 

If double NAT's are an issue then I may just take the easy route out and set up Orbi as AP mode. 

out of interest - EE say their box can have 65 connections at once - is this still the case once the Orbi's are up and running?

[CrimpOn]

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@Inkytog wrote:

out of interest - EE say their box can have 65 connections at once - is this still the case once the Orbi's are up and running?

---

If EE means "maximum of 65", that might be a limitation of their DHCP table.  Or, it could be an engineering opinion that more than 65 will begin to affect performance.  Customers have reported more than 125 devices on an Original Orbi RBR50.  As far as I know, the only limitation is the size of the IP subnet (253 devices).