RBR 50 Continuously Losing Connectivity

[enewbauer]

TL;DR: My RBR50 will not maintain a connection to the Internet, even though the wifi stays active. Problems just started a few days ago after over a year with no issues. The problem is the same when I have my laptop connected directly via an Ethernet cable.

Products: RBR50 (RBS50 and RBW30 satellites)

Firmware(s): issues are happening with both v2.3.5.30 and 2.5.1.8; currently running 2.3.5.30)

Hi - I've been having a ton of issues with my RBR50 over the last week. I installed the product in late 2018 and have had virtually no problems since then. That changed five days ago, wherein I started to have a ton of issues with connectivity with no specific trigger (no config change, HW change, etc.) I tried swapping out the modem, now using a Netgear CM1000, but the problems have gotten drastically worse over the last 2-3 days. It's basically not able to maintain a connection with the Internet.

The wi-fi stay active, and in some cases, if I were on a video conference or watching a movie, that will continue to play, but then trying to access a new web site fails and says there is no Internet connection. If I check the app, it says that it's offline. A simple reboot fixes this, but not for long. 

I've tried it both with wi-fi and Ethernet cable; same issues.

I had upgraded to v2.5.1.8, but then saw on the forums that people were having a ton of issues with that firmware, so I downgraded the satellites (before the router), then downgraded the router back to v2.3.5.30. No change in behavior. 

When I've tested directly with an Ethernet cable coming from the cable modem, I have no issues. So, it definitely seems to be an issue with the Orbi router.

Happy to share any other details or test anything to help diagnose. But, I've put multiple days into this and am about to just go purchase a Google Wi Fi setup and ditch the Orbi platform altogether.

Any ideas?

Thansk,
Mark

[FURRYe38]

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

Factory reset and setup from scratch...

[enewbauer]

Sorry for the delayed response and thank you for these ideas. I implemented the changes you recommended and will see how it goes for a few days.

I'm also going to try swapping out the modem, again, to see if that is part of the problem. While this would be the second modem swap in a week, as I initially thought that was part of the problem, perhaps it wasn't and maybe the new modem is introducing a shakiness that the Orbi does not react to well.

[FURRYe38]

Sounds good. Please leave feed back to the questions presented as well. Gives us some idea of your configuration. 

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@enewbauer wrote:

Sorry for the delayed response and thank you for these ideas. I implemented the changes you recommended and will see how it goes for a few days.

I'm also going to try swapping out the modem, again, to see if that is part of the problem. While this would be the second modem swap in a week, as I initially thought that was part of the problem, perhaps it wasn't and maybe the new modem is introducing a shakiness that the Orbi does not react to well.

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[kilroy818]

I'm having the exact same problems as you've described, and in a very similar timeframe. @enewbauer,  if you tried these troubleshooting steps, would you mind reporting back as to whether or not any of them provided relief?

Thank you!

[FURRYe38]

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBR50-instability-issues/m-p/1881887/highlight/true#M8623...

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@kilroy818 wrote:

I'm having the exact same problems as you've described, and in a very similar timeframe. @enewbauer,  if you tried these troubleshooting steps, would you mind reporting back as to whether or not any of them provided relief?

Thank you!

---

[enewbauer]

So, I would say it's sort of fixed. I'll list my settings below and it had been stable for 5+ days. However, this morning, Internet access from some devices was down, yet the speedtest worked AND I was able to access the router via Remote Management through the App (when I was NOT on the network). The only change I made yesterday afternoon, randomly, was enabling Circle for one of my kids' devices. So, I don't know if maybe my modem (set to bridge mode) rebooted in the middle of the night OR if Circle had something to do with my issues this morning.

One item that may be obvious is that make sure when you reboot you reboot everything: router and all satellites. I didn't do this with earlier troubleshooting and I noticed it seemed that things were being persisted unless I unplugged everything and then brought it back online one at a time.

Here are my settings, happy to change anything else if I missed something:

House Size: ~3,000 sq ft

System: RBK50 (FW v2.3.5.30), RBS50 (FW v2.3.5.30), RBW30 (FW v2.3.5.6)

Channels: 2.4GHz - 1; 5GHz - 48

Wifi Neighbors: a bunch, but on different channels

Beamforming: Enabled

MIMO: Enabled

WMM: Enabled

Armor: Not Activated

Circle: Disabled 

Daisy Chain: Disabled

Fast Roaming: Disabled

IPv6: Disabled (I believe)

Coexistence: Enabled

Preamble: Automatic

I did NOT do a full factory refresh when I made these changes, but again, the system was stable for 5+ days...until last night when I also happened to enable Circle again.

[SW_]

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@enewbauer wrote:

So, I would say it's sort of fixed. I'll list my settings below and it had been stable for 5+ days. However, this morning, Internet access from some devices was down, yet the speedtest worked AND I was able to access the router via Remote Management through the App (when I was NOT on the network). The only change I made yesterday afternoon, randomly, was enabling Circle for one of my kids' devices...

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Circle + DNS could be the culprit.  Check out this thread for DNS issue that many people facing with Circle.  You can try disabling Circle until a fix is available if that's an option for you. 

[FURRYe38]

If are you are noticing problems with Circle enabled, I would post about it over in the Circle forum to let others know about it:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Circle-Smart-Parental-Controls/bd-p/en-home-circle

Thankl you for posting.

---

@enewbauer wrote:

So, I would say it's sort of fixed. I'll list my settings below and it had been stable for 5+ days. However, this morning, Internet access from some devices was down, yet the speedtest worked AND I was able to access the router via Remote Management through the App (when I was NOT on the network). The only change I made yesterday afternoon, randomly, was enabling Circle for one of my kids' devices. So, I don't know if maybe my modem (set to bridge mode) rebooted in the middle of the night OR if Circle had something to do with my issues this morning.

One item that may be obvious is that make sure when you reboot you reboot everything: router and all satellites. I didn't do this with earlier troubleshooting and I noticed it seemed that things were being persisted unless I unplugged everything and then brought it back online one at a time.

Here are my settings, happy to change anything else if I missed something:

House Size: ~3,000 sq ft

System: RBK50 (FW v2.3.5.30), RBS50 (FW v2.3.5.30), RBW30 (FW v2.3.5.6)

Channels: 2.4GHz - 1; 5GHz - 48

Wifi Neighbors: a bunch, but on different channels

Beamforming: Enabled

MIMO: Enabled

WMM: Enabled

Armor: Not Activated

Circle: Disabled 

Daisy Chain: Disabled

Fast Roaming: Disabled

IPv6: Disabled (I believe)

Coexistence: Enabled

Preamble: Automatic

I did NOT do a full factory refresh when I made these changes, but again, the system was stable for 5+ days...until last night when I also happened to enable Circle again.

---

[enewbauer]

@SW_ thanks for the lead on that other thread; that sounds exactly like the problem that I had at the start of this: I would be on an all day video conference for work, and it would work while other connections would drop, etc. Also - right around the same time. I see you're on that one as well so I'll post some follow-up questions to that thread.

@FURRYe38 I'll post my issues on that board as well. Circle is not a must have for me right now, so I'll keep it disabled for a bit and maybe try enabling in a week or two to see if it causes a disruption. 

•  

[kilroy818]

I also guessed that Circle might be the culprit, based on some of the replies I've been seeing on here, so I disabled it last night. I'll report back after some observation. 

[FURRYe38]

Let us know how it goes. Others have been reporting not seeing any more issues after they disabled Circle. 

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@kilroy818 wrote:

I also guessed that Circle might be the culprit, based on some of the replies I've been seeing on here, so I disabled it last night. I'll report back after some observation. 

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[kilroy818]

Well, that didn't take long: I lost connectivity within minutes of posting that reply about having disabled Circle. Rebooted the Orbi and voila, back online.

[FURRYe38]

Whats the mfr and model# of your ISP modem the router is connected too? 

Has a factory reset been performed since last FW update? 

How was your last FW update applied? Download of FW files or auto FW update push from the NG services? 

If via Auto update, you might download the RBRs FW file, manually apply the FW to the RBR, factory reset. Power OFF the ISP Modem for 30 seconds then back ON. Wallk the setup wizard on the RBR and be sure not to enable any Circle or Armor. 

See if this helps any. You might downgrade FW as well to v30 and see using same process. 

If nothing seems to help solve this, I would get ahold of NG support about this. 

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@kilroy818 wrote:

Well, that didn't take long: I lost connectivity within minutes of posting that reply about having disabled Circle. Rebooted the Orbi and voila, back online.

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[kilroy818]

It's a Technicolor TC8717T, from Spectrum. The Orbi and this modem were working just fine and dandy with one another until just a recently. (When did 2.5.1.8 come out?)

No, I have not yet done a factory reset. That's next. I've been loathed to do so, in case it creates any issues with our devices. (It shouldn't if I use the same network name and password, I know, but that's not the kind of luck I have.

The firmware came down through the Orbi app. I never manually downloaded anything. So, yeah, I see what you're suggesting RE: manually downloading and reinstalling the firmware, but I also see "factory reset," which brings me back to the point I made above.

I've read numerous posts about folks who've downgraded only to find the problem persists, so I'd rather not do that until I do the factory reset. I'll most likely pull that trigger this afternoon. Just need to find a good time to kick everyone off. 🙂

[FURRYe38]

Your modem already has a built in router and wifi. What mode is the modem working in? Bridge or router mode? 

This would be a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

I would try option 1 first if you can. 

You can save off a current backup configuration to file, then do the reset and setup from scratch. This is a time savor. Be sure to not enable Circle or Armor. Cicle is causing problems. However if you have Circle enabled and re-apply the backup file, then circle maybe re-enabled. Unless you disable Circle first on your currnet configuration, then do a backup to file. Then you would be good to try the back up file after the reset.

12/19/2019 is when v.1.8 was released. I may have not been auto pushed till later for some. 

It's been solid for me and others. However I don't use Circle or Armor. These seem to clog up the system. As others are now posting that there problems are being solved by disabling of Circle after they had it running and seeing problems with it. 

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@kilroy818 wrote:

It's a Technicolor TC8717T, from Spectrum. The Orbi and this modem were working just fine and dandy with one another until just a recently. (When did 2.5.1.8 come out?)

No, I have not yet done a factory reset. That's next. I've been loathed to do so, in case it creates any issues with our devices. (It shouldn't if I use the same network name and password, I know, but that's not the kind of luck I have.

The firmware came down through the Orbi app. I never manually downloaded anything. So, yeah, I see what you're suggesting RE: manually downloading and reinstalling the firmware, but I also see "factory reset," which brings me back to the point I made above.

I've read numerous posts about folks who've downgraded only to find the problem persists, so I'd rather not do that until I do the factory reset. I'll most likely pull that trigger this afternoon. Just need to find a good time to kick everyone off. 🙂

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[kilroy818]

The wifi is already disabled on the modem, but you're right RE: the double NAT. I'm currently using the other LAN ports on the modem, in front of the Orbi, so I don't think I can go bridge. I did switch the Orbi's IP from DHCP to reserved IP, so let's see if that works.

Thanks for your help. I'll let you know.

[FURRYe38]

Ok well, if your keeping the modem in router mode I would set up the modem as suggested in option #2. Use the DMZ or IP Pass thru on the modem for the RBR in router mode. 

You could use the LAN ports on the RBR if you wanted to bridge the modem. If you needed extra LAN ports besides what the modem or RBR has, you could install a non managed non green ehternet switch behind the RBR to add more ports. This would be preferred.

Switches come in 5 to 48 ports. 

What do you have connected to the modems LAN ports besides the RBR? 

Or lastly, keep the modem in router mode and configure the RBR for AP mode...

Let us know how it goes.

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@kilroy818 wrote:

The wifi is already disabled on the modem, but you're right RE: the double NAT. I'm currently using the other LAN ports on the modem, in front of the Orbi, so I don't think I can go bridge. I did switch the Orbi's IP from DHCP to reserved IP, so let's see if that works.

Thanks for your help. I'll let you know.

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[UnCapitano]

I'm starting to wonder if this has more to do with the CM1000 that many of us are running.  I swapped out the Orbi system,for an Asus mesh system, and am still getting the intermittent dropped connection.

[FURRYe38]

Have your ISP check there logs for any drops they may have noticed. 

Have the ISP check the signal and line quality UP to the modem. 
Be sure there are not coax cable line splitters in the between the modem and ISP service box. 
Be sure your using good quality RG6 coax cable up to the modem. 

Mines connected to a CM1100. 

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@UnCapitano wrote:

I'm starting to wonder if this has more to do with the CM1000 that many of us are running.  I swapped out the Orbi system,for an Asus mesh system, and am still getting the intermittent dropped connection.

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[Hsrancourt]

Hi- I am having the exact same issue as the original post. Everything has been working fine until a week ago. Our WiFi internet connectivity goes down daily and I keep having to reboot the Orbi which ends up fixing it. The whole time our modem from Spectrum never loses internet. My Mac is wired to the router and seems to maintain occasional partial connectivity . My Orbi app always states that it is having trouble locating RBR50 when the internet connectivity is lost, even though my WiFi shows it still connected to the router network. We do not have Circle enabled. (Never have) we do have Armor enabled. No other setting have been changed since original install. Our Satellite has randomly been going offline as well.

[UnCapitano]

I turned off Armor on mine because of that exact issue. I didn’t run either Circle or Armor.

Circle worked for me early on before the 2.5.1.8 update, but I turned it off after a while because I didn’t want to pay the subscription. Armor gave my network problems from the start, so I turned it off and haven’t had any problems since.

I’d suggest trying to turn it off, rebooting the router and then seeing if it works better for you.

Rob

[FURRYe38]

What Firmware version is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

I would change the SSID name to something different instead of using default SSID name. Can be anything. Make it intuitive and fun. 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

Above suggestions working:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Throttling-Devices-RBK53/m-p/1858561/highlight/true#M81925

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update? 
https://kb.netgear.com/31486/How-do-I-reset-my-Orbi-system-to-factory-default-settings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePZSc7vnRlQ

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@Hsrancourt wrote:

Hi- I am having the exact same issue as the original post. Everything has been working fine until a week ago. Our WiFi internet connectivity goes down daily and I keep having to reboot the Orbi which ends up fixing it. The whole time our modem from Spectrum never loses internet. My Mac is wired to the router and seems to maintain occasional partial connectivity . My Orbi app always states that it is having trouble locating RBR50 when the internet connectivity is lost, even though my WiFi shows it still connected to the router network. We do not have Circle enabled. (Never have) we do have Armor enabled. No other setting have been changed since original install. Our Satellite has randomly been going offline as well.

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[john442]

It's the Circle/Netgear integration.  PERIOD.

I've spent literally hours on this.  Its having Circle enabled.  I have the latest FW on my Orbi 2.5.1.16.

With Circle enabled, tons of internet drops between router and my Charter modem. 

I've verified with Charter its not on their end.

I have an EXTRA RBR50, and tested it during an "outage"  with no Circle enabled...connected right up, put back the RBR w/Circle NO INTERNET.   Disabled Circle on the original router and everything works (except Circle of course).

With Circle 2-3+ drops EVERY DAY.  With Circle Disabled  -- ZERO over the last 10 days+

My kids are rejoicing at the lack of Circle and I lament the $5 spent on something broken.

I have a support case open with Netgear and I encourage everyone who has it to open one.  Maybe  few hundred cases will get this issue some priority.   Other than this my Orbi works great.

Here are the steps:

1. Visit NETGEAR's support site here
2. Under the heading Contact NETGEAR Support, select Get help on my NETGEAR Product.
3. Then check the I have a NETGEAR product without a serial number option
4. Select Circle as your product, and enter your most recent subscription renewal date for Circle on NETGEAR Premium (6/16/2020).
5. This process will get you the best contact info for Circle on NETGEAR support. 

[FURRYe38]

Please post about this in the Circle app forum for your issue:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Circle-Smart-Parental-Controls/bd-p/en-home-circle
Good Luck

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@john442 wrote:

It's the Circle/Netgear integration.  PERIOD.

I've spent literally hours on this.  Its having Circle enabled.  I have the latest FW on my Orbi 2.5.1.16.

With Circle enabled, tons of internet drops between router and my Charter modem. 

I've verified with Charter its not on their end.

I have an EXTRA RBR50, and tested it during an "outage"  with no Circle enabled...connected right up, put back the RBR w/Circle NO INTERNET.   Disabled Circle on the original router and everything works (except Circle of course).

With Circle 2-3+ drops EVERY DAY.  With Circle Disabled  -- ZERO over the last 10 days+

My kids are rejoicing at the lack of Circle and I lament the $5 spent on something broken.

I have a support case open with Netgear and I encourage everyone who has it to open one.  Maybe  few hundred cases will get this issue some priority.   Other than this my Orbi works great.

Here are the steps:

1. Visit NETGEAR's support site here
2. Under the heading Contact NETGEAR Support, select Get help on my NETGEAR Product.
3. Then check the I have a NETGEAR product without a serial number option
4. Select Circle as your product, and enter your most recent subscription renewal date for Circle on NETGEAR Premium (6/16/2020).
5. This process will get you the best contact info for Circle on NETGEAR support. 

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