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nick776
Guide

Wired Backhaul

My refund period for my Orbi is about to expire.  Can a moderator comment (hopefully a NetGear Employee) as to when/if we will get wired backhaul?  If it is in the next six months, I will keep my Orbi.  If it is not, I will return Orbi for Velop or Eero.  It is simply mind-boggling that Orbi doesn't have the wired backhaul option.  One node out in my detached garage needs to be wired.  The nodes in my house are wireless.  We should be given the option for a wired connection to a satellite from router.  Other mesh systems that cost the same as Oribi have such an option.  Heck, mesh systems that cost LESS than Orbi have such an option.

 

If someone can confirm that this option is in the works, I will keep Orbi.  If not, bye bye Orbi.   

Message 1 of 30

Accepted Solutions
AmitR
NETGEAR Moderator

Re: Wired Backhaul

Nick,

Here's something I posted this morning on another thread for the same topic: 

I've added Ethernet Backhaul into my list of Candidate Features for a future Firmware update.  I can't yet commit to a delivery date, but wanted to acknowledge that this is a valid use case and something we're looking seriously at.  

 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Feature-Request-Orbi-Satellite-Ethernet-Backhaul/m-p/1144987#M...

 

Orbi Product Management

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Message 4 of 30

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DarrenM
NETGEAR Moderator

Re: Wired Backhaul

Hello nick776

 

I know this is being discussed and might be added later but I do not have any timelines as when this might happen

 

DarrenM

Message 2 of 30
Hirrdgoon
Apprentice

Re: Wired Backhaul

Yep, I am in he same boat and I will likley return mine. This is a significant feature left out, which many (search around the forms, its a lot) people want.

 

I would take it as far as saying this is an oversight as all the compatition has this, and it should have been included from day 1.

Message 3 of 30
AmitR
NETGEAR Moderator

Re: Wired Backhaul

Nick,

Here's something I posted this morning on another thread for the same topic: 

I've added Ethernet Backhaul into my list of Candidate Features for a future Firmware update.  I can't yet commit to a delivery date, but wanted to acknowledge that this is a valid use case and something we're looking seriously at.  

 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Feature-Request-Orbi-Satellite-Ethernet-Backhaul/m-p/1144987#M...

 

Orbi Product Management

View solution in original post

Message 4 of 30
JMU1998
Luminary

Re: Wired Backhaul

This is heartening news that Netgear is looking into adding this Highly desired and needed feature to keep Orbi upto speed and ahead of Competition.  welcome news! I decided to keep Orbi based on this news I am sure many more will be happy to hear about the wired backhaul possibility.

Message 5 of 30
JMU1998
Luminary

Re: Wired Backhaul

If you want this feature please speak up for this wired backhaul idea at:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Idea-Exchange-For-Home/Netgear-Orbi-Wired-Sattelite/idi-p/1145210

 

Message 6 of 30
JMU1998
Luminary

Re: Wired Backhaul

Darren - ORBI is using a Qualcomm IPQ4019 which is a 720Mhz Quad core Processor!! Paired with 512Mb of RAM and 4Gb of flash and a wired backhaul can't be added via Firmware???  Seriously?? not even offer wired backhaul in AP mode? Seems a massive waste of a powerful machine limiting it's potential because of poor Firmware features. I don't want to get rid of Orbi I firmly believe it has a lot of potential just frustrated by Firmware thus far and lack of features.

Message 7 of 30

Re: Wired Backhaul

I hope this feature comes is the next few weeks... I would really apreshiate Smiley Happy

Message 8 of 30
JMU1998
Luminary

Re: Wired Backhaul

Now even Amplifi are going to offer wired backhaul why does Netgear always have to play catchup after taking the lead? Competition always see to fly past Netgear even if Netgear starts ahead, just poor feature set and slow Firmware release plagues Netgear everytime they put out something promising, Orbi still has a lot of potential but features Must improve wired backhaul is one of them now every competitor is offering it!

Message 9 of 30
kc2kth
Aspirant

Re: Wired Backhaul

I'm chiming in here to add a vote for wired backhaul. I'm looking to replace my 2012 Airport Express with a mesh solution to improve coverage in my 2350 sq ft home and yard. I'd prefer to use wired backhaul between the devices so I can move my AP to the basement (instead of living room where the APE is now) with satellite on the 2nd floor, opposite end of the home. I already have a gig-E link between those locations so wired backhaul is really a no brainer.

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 10 of 30
JMU1998
Luminary

Re: Wired Backhaul

@kc2kth please vote up and state your case for it at this link below for Netgear idea exchange there is an ongoing request/discussion for wired backhaul:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Idea-Exchange-For-Home/Netgear-Orbi-Wired-Sattelite/idi-p/1145210

 

Message 11 of 30
NJITman
Guide

Re: Wired Backhaul

I had eero - went back to my Netgear NightHawk, temporarily.  eero stores all of your configuration settings in the cloud and they have had several cloud outages.  When that happens, you cannot make changes to your eero configuration.  I found this out the hard way.  Went to open up one of my kids profiles via the eero app and got HTTP 500 errors.  First mistake - poor error handling and no indication their servers were down.  Next, went to disable profles, now the system started acting funny, disconnecting the satellite devices, etc.  Was left with the main eero running.  Could not reconnect the satellite because eero's registration servers were down.  So, I pulled it out, put the NightHawk back in, changed the IPs to match eero and was back in business.  Will sell the eero on ebay as the return period ended months ago.

 

So, I bought the 2-pack Orbi and then started seeing this backhaul issue, have not installed it and will most likely return it now to amazon.  What a serious omission from a company in the networking gear business for years.  Even eero, a startup, had the presence of mind to include wired backhaul.  Sadly, they put all their eggs in the cloud basket and we know the cloud suffers outages.  At least Orbi can save the configuration local, cloud or both.  But, without backhaul, I will have to home run a cable to my office where the bulk of the bandwidth is needed.  Can do that, not a big deal, and I would if the backhaul feature seemed like it was coming in a firmware update.  Me suspects it is not anytime soon.

 

Just wanted you all to know about eero limitations - may be a dealbreaker for you.  It was for me.

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 12 of 30
schumaku
Guru

Re: Wired Backhaul


@NJITman wrote:

But, without backhaul, I will have to home run a cable to my office where the bulk of the bandwidth is needed.  Can do that, not a big deal, and I would if the backhaul feature seemed like it was coming in a firmware update.


Five by one. The Orbi system does establish it's wireless backhaul interconnecting all Orbi devices, router and satellite in a transparent way. No need to put in cables. If your router (or then the Orbi configured as a router) is located in a central point of the house, you still can put the Orbi satellite somewhere between half the way form the Orbi router (or or Orbi router in AP mode) to the office.

 

You can still consider to install a network cable from the Orbi router (or Orbi in AP mode) to the office, to get the best possible (wired) performance there. Or from an Orbi satellite in case of wireless coverage for the office is not sufficient.

 

Up to here, this is possible today.

The aim why some users are requesting (and would be willing to add) a wired backhaul is using an existing (or to be established) network connection, being a direct network link being an existing layer 2 switched environment, to connect some or all Orbi systems over a wired network - ie. mainly to overcome the limited reach (and the performance impact) of the wireless 5 GHz backhaul connection.

Message 13 of 30
NJITman
Guide

Re: Wired Backhaul

Can anyone post realistic network speeds attainable via this tri-band wireless link?  I have not connected Orbi to our network yet, so don't have any real-world data.  For example, our cable provider supplied 300 Mbps down/35 Mbps up at the router.  What kind of hit does Orbi impart to the integrated switch (wired Ethernet) for the main unit?  If you then have that wirelessly linked to the satellite Orbi, what would be the expected bandwidth conservation at the satellite Ethernet ports?  Of course, the weakest link will be that tri-band connection, just wondering how much loss I can expect.

 

For example, 300 at router, 150 at Orbi main Ethernet, 75 at Orbi satellite Ethernet.  Just doing 50% conservation as an example.  If I instead run a home run cable from the Orbi main to my office, I will start off at 150 versus 75.  If Orbi had Ethernet backhaul, I assume I would fall somewhere between 150 and 75.

 

With eero, I lost bandwidth due to the external switching needed.  First the output of the main eero was already down in the low 100s, so a huge hit there and then by the time it came out of the satellite eero, it was in the upper 50s.  So, in my office, I never experienced really fast Internet speeds due to the inherent switching bottlenecks.  It was actually faster on wireless!  So, even though eero has backhaul built in, the design of it was not resource efficient.  Plus, the other issues I mentioned - good riddance.

 

If anyone can speak to the throughtput of the Orbi devices, that will probably drive my decision whether to return it.

 

I like the unified SSID of these mesh devices, but they may not make sense for the more advanced networking crowd that wants the ability to customize, tweak and get the most bandwidth.

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 14 of 30
st_shaw
Master

Re: Wired Backhaul

 

I've measured the following data throughput using iperf between two clients on the internal network:

1. Between wired devices on either the Orbi Sat or Router--940 Mbps (full gigabit switch speeds)

2. Between wired devices across the Orbi backhaul--575 Mbs

 

My WiFi throughput between a wireless and a wired client is 225 Mbps, but this is limited by my clients, which are 802.11n 2x2 with a 300 Mbps connection speed.  A 3x3 ac client would be faster.

 

Message 15 of 30
NJITman
Guide

Re: Wired Backhaul

Those are decent numbers, much better than eero and I suspect the Orbi wireless backhaul is faster than the eero wired backhaul.  That being said, I can probably live with the wireless backhaul feature for now.  I was waiting as long as possible befor returning it (04/21), but these stats are very positive.

 

We are capped at 300 Mbps here - no gigibit fiber in our area - yet.

 

Thanks!

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 16 of 30
JMU1998
Luminary

Re: Wired Backhaul

The Orbi is a much more powerful machine than eero, ORBI is using a Qualcomm IPQ4019 which is a 720Mhz Quad core CPU!! Paired with 512Mb of RAM and 4Gb of flash and a wired backhaul can't be added via Firmware still amazes me but eero with lower specs can offer it.

Message 17 of 30
st_shaw
Master

Re: Wired Backhaul

 

One thing I don't completely understand is my 2011 MacBook Pro connects to Orbi 5 GHz at 300 Mbps, but I have a brand new WiFi modem from CenturyLink and a Ubiquiti AP-AC-Pro, and the MacBook connects to both of these at 450 Mbps. The CenturyLink modem specs indicate it's 4x4 on 5 GHz.

Message 18 of 30
schumaku
Guru

Re: Wired Backhaul


@st_shaw wrote:

 

... my 2011 MacBook Pro connects to Orbi 5 GHz at 300 Mbps, but I have a brand new WiFi modem from CenturyLink and a Ubiquiti AP-AC-Pro, and the MacBook connects to both of these at 450 Mbps. The CenturyLink modem specs indicate it's 4x4 on 5 GHz.


The current Orbi systems have a dedicated 4x4 5 GHz radio backhaul, the client access is implemented by dedicated 2*2 on 5 GHz plus  2x2 on 2.4 GHz radios. While this won't allow max out the single user, single client throughput, it makes a nicely balanced solution for concurrent usage of multiple clients on multiple Orbi stations (router and satellites).

Message 19 of 30
st_shaw
Master

Re: Wired Backhaul


@schumaku wrote:

@st_shaw wrote:

 

... my 2011 MacBook Pro connects to Orbi 5 GHz at 300 Mbps, but I have a brand new WiFi modem from CenturyLink and a Ubiquiti AP-AC-Pro, and the MacBook connects to both of these at 450 Mbps. The CenturyLink modem specs indicate it's 4x4 on 5 GHz.


The current Orbi systems have a dedicated 4x4 5 GHz radio backhaul, the client access is implemented by dedicated 2*2 on 5 GHz plus  2x2 on 2.4 GHz radios. While this won't allow max out the single user, single client throughput, it makes a nicely balanced solution for concurrent usage of multiple clients on multiple Orbi stations (router and satellites).


Ok.  So does this mean the maximum connection speeds for Orbi are:

1. 866 for 802.11ac clients (two 433 Mbs streams)

2. 300 mpbs for 802.11n clients (two 150 Mbps streams)

 

 

Message 20 of 30
schumaku
Guru

Re: Wired Backhaul


@st_shaw wrote:

 


So does this mean the maximum connection speeds for Orbi are: ...

For the Orbi router/AP, and for each Orbi satellite/AP. As such, Orbi does not want to compete with the single client best speed stuff. In y opinion, this is not a big issue - as the majority of mobile clients are 2x2 systems anyway - the newer Apple notebooks are an exception. 


We should not go off-topic here.

Message 21 of 30
Backhaul
Initiate

Re: Wired Backhaul

Has there been any update on ethernet backhaul?  I am about to buy eero or orbi.  My preference is orbi, but not without ethernet backhaul regardless of how good the dedicated 5ghz satellite connection is.

Message 22 of 30
NJITman
Guide

Re: Wired Backhaul

No update that I have heard.  The Orbi definitely has provided faster throughput for my network, even without the wired backhaul.  The eero did not work for me - the reduced bandwidth (even over the wired backhaul) and the issues with them saving the configuration in the cloud were deal breakers for me.  I have a 3 pack eero for sale if you want to purchase it - I was going to sell it on eBay anyway.  Used it from September until March.  Still hoping for a firmware update to add wired backhaul to Orbi, but not holding my breath.

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 23 of 30
DarrenM
NETGEAR Moderator

Re: Wired Backhaul

Ther is a post about this in another thread here is the link to this 

 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Feature-Request-Orbi-Satellite-Ethernet-Backhaul/td-p/1144987/...

 

DarrenM

Message 24 of 30
NJITman
Guide

Re: Wired Backhaul

Sounds like I can stop holding my breath - at least it is in the works.


Thanks for the update!

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 25 of 30
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