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RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

StephenB
Guru

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update


@Sandshark wrote:

The SYSLINUX.CFG file it boots from is on the NAS flash, not the USB drive.  But unless you can boot to Tech Support mode and can FTP in, you have no way to examine it.  But, as I said, it should be replaced with the USB recovery, which sounds like it is working properly.


My understanding is that syslinux is only in the x86 flash, not the arm.

 

If it is the boot flash (which is possible) then Netgear might be able to rebuild it.

Message 26 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

TY again for your contributions.
Unfortunately yesterday (GRRR) I closed WSS by mistake (it was behind something else, I clicked on the edge to highlight it but it was the TOP rhs corner), it had done ~60%. Restarted WD DLGDIAG Extended Test, which seems to progress normally (last time it stopped after few minutes), 13h done, 18h to go.

Message 27 of 56
StephenB
Guru

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

Honestly I'm not sure this disk is solid enough to be very useful in checking the NAS.  But we'll see.

Message 28 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

Nor me. 11 hours to go. Tomorrow we will find out

 

One thing I don’t understand (amongst the thousands), is on “migrating” a volume.

“The NAS boots from an OS partition on the disks, and a factory default just reformats the disks and reinstalls the software from the flash.”

If the OS is on the disks (albeit on a different partition), when I migrate a volume, by putting the full array of 4 disks in a different NAS, I am also transferring the OS which was there.

So, if my OS is corrupt (because of failed FW update or whichever reason), I am transferring the problem to a new NAS. So, I may have lost the entire dataset anyway.

“Assuming no, It is worth zeroing the disk (perhaps using the quick write zeros test), powering down the NAS and inserting that disk by itself, and powering it up.  If that fails to install it will confirm that the problem is in the chassis.  If it succeeds, then it will point more towards corruption on the hard disks.”

So, really, I should hope that the first case (failing to install - bad chassis) is true.  Because if it succeeds, migrating the full array (page 75 of Hardware User Manual) would bring me back to where I am now….

It seems to be “bad news” either way….

Message 29 of 56
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

It is true that the OS is on a partition on the drives and, if corrupt, you'll be moving the problem to another unit.  That's why testing the old NAS with a spare drive is a good idea before doing that.

 

But what you describe sounds more like a problem with the chassis than the volume.

Message 30 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

“It is worth zeroing the disk (perhaps using the quick write zeros test), powering down the NAS and inserting that disk by itself, and powering it up. If that fails to install it will confirm that the problem is in the chassis. “
Nope. “Booting from USB” message. I tried another recovery, just to be sure, no difference.
Could “hot inserting” this zeroed drive make a difference?
I could also try to access the Boot menu with the pin in the back – but that may be impossible “It requires the boot menu though, which could be a problem.”
Just for info, the HD was the “quick write zero”, but I don’t think that would change anything.

 

I think I remember reading that the NV+ could not read an OS-6 arrays.
I started the NV+ which was offline, just to check it. It has 4x 3Tb disks (8.1Tb capacity), but disk 3 is DEAD, volume unprotected. But there is no data, nothing, it was empty. Maybe I should remove disk 3, delete the volume and create a new one with a 3 disks array? That would be 6Tb.

Message 31 of 56
StephenB
Guru

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update


@berillio wrote:


I started the NV+ which was offline, just to check it. It has 4x 3Tb disks (8.1Tb capacity), but disk 3 is DEAD, volume unprotected.

Something wrong here, because the NV+ can't handle disks > 2 TB.

 

But legacy systems (4.1.x, 4.2.x, 5.x firmware) can't read OS 6 disks.

 


@berillio wrote:


Could “hot inserting” this zeroed drive make a difference?

No. But this test result does point to the chassis, not with the disks. 

Message 32 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

"Something wrong here, because the NV+ can't handle disks > 2 TB."
Probably my fault, it is not a NV+, it is a NV+ v2. Apologies.

Message 33 of 56
StephenB
Guru

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update


@berillio wrote:

it is a NV+ v2..


That explains it.  Unfortunately, that can't read the OS-6 disk.

Message 34 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

So the RN104 is confirmed dead/tot/kaput? Nothing else we could try?
I wish I knew WHY it happened.
Re the NV+v2, should I “delete” that empty volume and “create” a new one without the failed disk? Or should I use a different procedure?
That would give me some space for all the other PCs/devices at home

Message 35 of 56
StephenB
Guru

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update


@berillio wrote:

So the RN104 is confirmed dead/tot/kaput? Nothing else we could try?


 @Marc_V or @JohnCM_S might have some ideas.  I think with current firmware your system would allow access with tech support mode - but I don't think 6.2.5 would do that.

 

Can you ping the NAS in this mode?  If so, do you get a login prompt if you try to telnet into the NAS IP address?

Message 36 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

I cannot get in Tech Support mode, I tried to access the Boot menu (to attempt the Factory Default) last night, using the reset button, keeping it pressed even before pressing the power button, but nope.
NAS does not respond to a normal ping 192.168.2.3 from cmd, and it is not seen by the router

Message 37 of 56
StephenB
Guru

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update


@berillio wrote:


NAS does not respond to a normal ping 192.168.2.3 from cmd, and it is not seen by the router


Then unfortunately I don't think there is anything that can be done.  

Message 38 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

I thought of removing the battery cell, just in case it may loose any settings (and make NAS forget that it had gone bonkers).

Forty minutes later, before putting it back it and reassembling NAS, i thought of checking the battery, possibly putting a new one, if it was tired.

DEAD FLAT (0.24v)

 

OK, before powering it up with a FRESH battery. Should I have it with the full array (if I get the "Boot from USB" message, to do the FW recovery successfully I should have the full array), or with the sacrificial "zeroed" drive? Or should I just power-up with empty bays and report?

Message 39 of 56
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

If you power it up with no drives and you get a status of ":No Disks", that's a good sign.  From there, whether you try the zeroed drive before the full volume is entirely up to you.  But since you don't even need to wait till it finishes creating the volume to know something is different, I think it could be a good idea.  When you do power up with the volume, yes, it should be the complete volume, not just one drive from it.  But if your zeroed drive was sacrificed from the volume, so the volume is now non-redundant, don't include that drive, especially if you let the NAS start creating another volume on it.  Wait till the volume mounts in degraded mode, then add the zeroed one with power on.  You may need to format it (on the NAS) before XRAID will add it to the volume.

Message 40 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

With no disks, I get the “Boot from USB”
Zeroed (spare) disk first?
Or the full (redundant) array, and if I get the message again, doing a “normal” recovery?

Message 41 of 56
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

If you don't see "No Disks" when no drives are installed, then there is still something wrong and you should definately not risk your volume any further.  You can try the spare drive, but I don't think you'll find it successful.  I believe you have done all you can to diagnose this NAS and there is a hardware issue with it that dictates replacement.  Specifically, the NAS believes the Backup button is permanently pushed, though the button itself is OK.  Without a schematic, going further is poking in the dark.  And even with one, the chances you could repair it are slim.

Message 42 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

I tried with the zeroed disk as advised. It did not go into Factory default, but “Boot from USB” as always. Factory default could not be invoked by the reset button either. Nor it can be pinged. Basically, there is no change from earlier.
Incidentally, on the motherboard there are two set of jumpers, J7 & J14, I don't know if there are instruction for their use anywhere (maybe they could be used like the BIOS jumper on a pc motherboard).

At least, we found an oddity/fault, the flat battery, however minimal, unimportant and unconsequential that may appear to be.
Or maybe there was another fault, which drained the battery at a faster rate than expected.
I think I will be checking my NV+v2 immediately, just in case

Message 43 of 56
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

I suspect failure of the +5VSB (+5 volt standby) voltage within the NAS can cause the battery to drain faster because the real time clock would be running on battery all the time, but you would likely be seeing other issues due to that (the On/Off button would not function, for one).

 

It should be possible to create a USB drive that would take the place of the internal flash and transfer control to the OS on the hard drives instead of doing an OS re-install, but I have no idea how, or to whom to direct you to try that.  Unfortunately, USB re-install isn't controlled by syslinux.cfg (it needs to be before that in case syslinx.cfg is what's wrong), so you can't just edit that.

Message 44 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

I have a spankng new 214, just delivered. I presume it should come up with the NoDisk message, it should be seen by RaidAir, and I should be able to open the Admin page (it was 7 years since I unboxed  the RN104, I cannot remember anything about the initial setups).

From page 75 of the manual

To migrate a volume to a diskless ReadyNAS OS 6 system:
"1.Gracefully shut down the new (diskless) storage system.
For information about how to gracefully shut down your system, see the Preferred Shutdown section of the chapter that describes your system.
2.Remove each disk in the volume from the old system.
3.Install each disk in the volume into the new storage system.
For more information, see Add a Disk on page 76.
4.Turn on the new system by pressing the Power button.
The new system recognizes the migrated volume and its data."

 

Is there anything else which would be worth doing/checking beforehand, given that my 104 had a fault? Don't wish to wipe out everything simply by rushing doing things.

Message 45 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

On the back of the 214 there is a label, OS-6.10. My 104 had 6.2.5. But the OS is also on a partition of the disks, so… when I migrate my volume, would that migrate also the OS? Which means that I need to do two firmware updates, one to 6.5.2 and another to 6.10.3 (which is the current).. right?

Message 46 of 56
StephenB
Guru

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update


@berillio wrote:

On the back of the 214 there is a label, OS-6.10. My 104 had 6.2.5. But the OS is also on a partition of the disks, so… when I migrate my volume, would that migrate also the OS? Which means that I need to do two firmware updates, one to 6.5.2 and another to 6.10.3 (which is the current).. right?


The system applies whatever firmware is newest.  If the flash is newer, it updates the OS partition from the flash.  If the OS partition is newer, it updates the flash from the OS.

 

So it will attempt to upgrade your OS partition directly to 6.10 - which I don't think is want you want.

 

One option is to insert a spare disk first, and manually install 6.5.2 on the NAS.  (Hopefully it will let you do that).  If it works, then migrate the disks, and the NAS will update the real OS partition to 6.5.2.  Then manually update to 6.10.3 (which is current).

 

You might wait a bit, and see if @JohnCM_S or @Marc_V chime in. The unknown for me is why the upgrade path requires stopping at 6.5.2 first.  If that is related to changes in the OS partition itself, then you absolutely should follow the advice.  But if it is related to changes in the boot loader, then you might not need to.  So they might have other advice on how to proceed.  

Message 47 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

Waited a full day but did not see any updates on the discussion, so I did the following:

a) RN214 display shows "192.168.2.3 with OS-6.10.1, Safe Mode"

b) power off gracefully (using Pwr button)

c) installed ZEROED disk

d) Powered up

e) RN214 went into Factory default

f) Installed FW

g) display shows "data 99% free on 192.168.2.47" (same as when it was powered up the first time).

 

Open the admin page on firefox, it seemed temperamental and switched to Kmeleon. Did some basic configuration (time, network, password) saved, got out of the wizard, rebooted, tried to upload 6.5.3 FW, “Error, uploaded file is older than the current version”.

I just shut it down, I will remove the disk and maybe re-zero it.

Message 48 of 56
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

There are a couple ways around the OS not accepting the older firmware, but wait till you here from one of the Netgear mods as to whether that's necessary or advisable.  They are likely the only ones who can tell you why the update to the inermediate version is required, and whether it affects your more unusual upgrade case.

Message 49 of 56
berillio
Aspirant

Re: RN 104 failed to start with "Boot from USB" - no FW update

OK, I'll stay put.

Would it be advisable to start registering the new NASes (one is still packed, I won't receive the disks until after Easter)?

 

Message 50 of 56
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