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Force use of 2.4ghz

Aitku
Aspirant

Force use of 2.4ghz

I am using the EX8000 to reach a summerhouse in the garden some 80 yards away. If my android phone or windows laptop are on 2.4ghz the signal reaches fine. But, they default to connecting using 5ghz and that doesn't reach yet they don't seem to automatically switch to 2.4ghz. What's the best and easiest way to switch them to 2.4ghz so I get a reliable signal there please?
Message 1 of 11

Accepted Solutions
CrimpOn
Sensei

Re: Force use of 2.4ghz


@Aitku wrote:
I am using the EX8000 to reach a summerhouse in the garden some 80 yards away. If my android phone or windows laptop are on 2.4ghz the signal reaches fine. But, they default to connecting using 5ghz and that doesn't reach yet they don't seem to automatically switch to 2.4ghz. What's the best and easiest way to switch them to 2.4ghz so I get a reliable signal there please?

Do I understand correctly that the summerhouse is 80 yards away from the EX8000?

(i.e. the EX8000 is not located in the summerhouse)

 

My phone often does not switch automatically so I open the phone Network controls, turn WiFi off and back on again, and it connects.

Can you try that?

I love my Orbi.

View solution in original post

Message 3 of 11

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plemans
Guru

Re: Force use of 2.4ghz

80 yards is quite a distance. Its probably having issues becaues 5ghz doesn't broadcast as far or thorugh as much materials as 2.4ghz. 

And 2.4ghz is slow. 

when you set it up, you might be able to disable the 5ghz backhaul and just use the 2.4ghz. I haven't tried it before though as the whole purpose of the tribands is the dedicated 5ghz backhaul. 

Current Setup: CM2000-> RBK750-> GS716v2-> RAXE500-> Pi-hole->
Message 2 of 11
CrimpOn
Sensei

Re: Force use of 2.4ghz


@Aitku wrote:
I am using the EX8000 to reach a summerhouse in the garden some 80 yards away. If my android phone or windows laptop are on 2.4ghz the signal reaches fine. But, they default to connecting using 5ghz and that doesn't reach yet they don't seem to automatically switch to 2.4ghz. What's the best and easiest way to switch them to 2.4ghz so I get a reliable signal there please?

Do I understand correctly that the summerhouse is 80 yards away from the EX8000?

(i.e. the EX8000 is not located in the summerhouse)

 

My phone often does not switch automatically so I open the phone Network controls, turn WiFi off and back on again, and it connects.

Can you try that?

I love my Orbi.

View solution in original post

Message 3 of 11
Aitku
Aspirant

Re: Force use of 2.4ghz

Thanks. I've tried switching off and back on the wi-fi on my phone and that does switch it to 2.4ghz. Thanks. Your other comment is right - the AC3000 is at the nearest point in the house and uses the 5ghz backhaul to the main router. I might try moving it to the summerhouse and see whether it can reach the router.

Model: EX8000|AC3000 Nighthawk X6S Tri Band WiFi Mesh Extender
Message 4 of 11

Re: Force use of 2.4ghz


@CrimpOn wrote:

My phone often does not switch automatically so I open the phone Network controls, turn WiFi off and back on again, and it connects.

Can you try that?


That is certainly is a better strategy.

 

It really is up to the phone to detect the correct wifi band. It is not something that you should have to do with the wifi source.

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 5 of 11
CrimpOn
Sensei

Re: Force use of 2.4ghz

I should point out that the phone is not "selecting 2.4G".  It is looking at the list of WiFi access point SSID's that it can find and that it has been told to "connect automatically".  The Orbi 5G WiFi signal is too low to be usable (may not even be detected), so it selects the only usable signal, which is the 2.4G one.  It is actually amazing that the 2.4G signal is usable at 80 yards. Depending on the exterior wall construction, it might be worth experimenting with placing the EX8000 in a widow.

 

If there is a need for greater bandwidth in the summerhouse, there are only two solutions:

  • Install an ethernet cable to the summerhouse.  Ethernet is rated to do gigabit at 90 meters, and will certainly do 100mb.
    While the ethernet cable is not all that expensive, installation can be a challenge (and expensive).
  • Install a pair of WiFi bridge devices.  Ubiquiti nanostation has been mentioned in several posts, and there are less expensive "no-name" brands on Amazon that get good reviews.
I love my Orbi.
Message 6 of 11
alokeprasad
Mentor

Re: Force use of 2.4ghz


@CrimpOn wrote:

I should point out that the phone is not "selecting 2.4G".  It is looking at the list of WiFi access point SSID's that it can find and that it has been told to "connect automatically". 


Trying to understand the methodology in a more general sense.

 

What does the phone do when it sees one SSID that the Orbi is broadcasting for use with 2.4 and 5 GHz frequencies?

 

How does the phone decide at any/every point in time:

  • which freq to use
  • which satellite to connect to

Does the phone choose whichever is the "strongest" at that location that the phone is currently at?

As the phone moves around, does it stay with that frequency? Does it re-evaluate the strength if the strength drops below a threshold?

 

Any good web site that delves into how "mesh" systems work?

Orbi RBK50v2 ver 2.7.2.104
Love my Orbi (with this firmware version).
Message 7 of 11
CrimpOn
Sensei

Re: Force use of 2.4ghz


@alokeprasad wrote:

Any good web site that delves into how "mesh" systems work?

Search for WiFi roaming.  Lots of articles.

 

This one did great until the last paragraph that turned into a sales pitch:

https://hometoys.com/demystifying-wi-fi-roaming/ 

 

Here is a Geek who did an actual test:

http://www.wireless-nets.com/resources/tutorials/how_roaming_works.html 

Notice that his setup was not a typical "mesh" system.  In the Orbi system, all access points are set to the same channel and the Orbi offers 802.11r (Fast Roaming): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11r-2008 

 

Each article I found has a slightly different slant on the topic.  They all put the initiative on the device, but I seem to remember once reading about an 802.11 standard which allows the access point to "steer" devices toward one band or the other (I think by delaying a response in hopes that the device will make up its mind more quickly).

 

Note that this discussion is probably academic in the context of being 80 yards from the WiFi access point.  By that range, the 5G WiFi signal is probably too low to measure.

I love my Orbi.
Message 8 of 11
alokeprasad
Mentor

Re: Force use of 2.4ghz

Which one of these approaches does the Orbi use? 

 

It sets all of the AP (staellites) to use the same SSID's and security, and fast roaming optimises the handoff thriugh fast BSS transitions.

 

  1. Non-Controller Multiple AP Approach: Perhaps the most common approach to date, installers have traditionally used multiple APs set to the same SSID and security level—doing their best to isolate the APs into logical zones in an attempt to reduce the number of handoffs a device may require. This generally has the same effect as the “configuration controller” option described below—but at a lower cost. Clients are still responsible for determining when to trigger the handoff, resulting in some delays when moving from AP to AP.
  1. Configuration Controllers: A configuration controller is used in conjunction with multiple vendor-specific low powered APs and typically does little more than optimize the AP setup by pushing the settings out to the APs on the network and ensuring they are all set to the same SSID and security levels.  The client device must still determine at what point to jump from one AP to another and go through the same handoff process.
  1. Management Controllers: The purpose of a management controller is to optimize the handoff process between APs. While the handoff process may become somewhat faster, the client must still determine at what point to move from one AP to another, which typically takes more time than the handoff process itself.
  1. Wireless Network Virtualization: While still employing the use of a controller, this method is significantly more sophisticated than the aforementioned controller solutions. In this scenario, the controller actively monitors and “listens” to all APs on the network, selecting the best one for transmitting data to the client. Roaming is eliminated because the client sees all APs as a single AP.  For certain enterprise applications, this is an effective solution, but for home and small office use, the benefits may not outweigh the hardware, setup and maintenance costs.
Orbi RBK50v2 ver 2.7.2.104
Love my Orbi (with this firmware version).
Message 9 of 11
CrimpOn
Sensei

Re: Force use of 2.4ghz


@alokeprasad wrote:

Which one of these approaches does the Orbi use? 


Oh, I have no idea. I have looked at the WiFi management frames and see that the Orbi sends out broadcasts every 100ms (which I think is standard). Orbi implements the Fast Forwarding standard, which reduces the need for devices to reauthenticate when they change nodes.

The bottom line remains that the device makes decisions on changing.

 

This appears to be the reason that some devices stick to an Orbi node that most people find incorrect.  Network software in devices that are expected to move around are programmed to keep searching and comparing.  Devices that are expected to remain in one place often seem to connect to the first WiFi SSID that appears and quit looking.  Drives people nuts.  After a power outage, for example, often the router WiFi comes up first and devices connect to it and are no longer looking when a nearby satellite syncs with the router and begins broadcasting the same SSID.

I love my Orbi.
Message 10 of 11
alokeprasad
Mentor

Re: Force use of 2.4ghz

Bingo!

One strategy for fixed devices (desktops, security cams, entertainment systems) would be to shut off client devices until all satellites are up and running, power-on the devices, make it "forget" the Orbi network, re-discover the Orbi network.  It will involve re-entering the passwords, but hopefully this will net need to be done very often.

 

Or will be required (forget and re-discover the Orbi network) only for "mis-connected" devices.

 


@CrimpOn wrote:

This appears to be the reason that some devices stick to an Orbi node that most people find incorrect.  Network software in devices that are expected to move around are programmed to keep searching and comparing.  Devices that are expected to remain in one place often seem to connect to the first WiFi SSID that appears and quit looking.  Drives people nuts.  After a power outage, for example, often the router WiFi comes up first and devices connect to it and are no longer looking when a nearby satellite syncs with the router and begins broadcasting the same SSID.

 

Orbi RBK50v2 ver 2.7.2.104
Love my Orbi (with this firmware version).
Message 11 of 11
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