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Forum Discussion
Android 8 Crashes Orbi
I've been tracking down an issue where my Orbi just suddenly drops wifi and reboots. I've isolated it to be associated with an Android device running 8.0 or higher. And I've proven it turning off wifi on my Pixel (now running 8.1 with the same issue) and starting out using my old Nexus 6P on 7.X. No issues for 2 straight days. I upgraded my 6P to 8.0 and BAM. Router crashes periodically when using this device. Turned that phone off and also kept my Pixel wifi off. 2 straight days, no issues.
Obviously there is something in Android 8.X that is causing issues but a client device should NOT be able to crash a router! Anyone else having this issue? I've even tried factory resetting both my Pixel and my router. No dice.
Any suggestions? Is there a way to dump a log file before a crash (or at least periodically so we can see what's happening?
221 Replies
When this happened tp me. I changed pixel to static ip address rather than dhcp. it stopped the crashes.
not the most ideal solution but maybe it will help ubtil a true fix.
cjperone100 wrote:When this happened tp me. I changed pixel to static ip address rather than dhcp. it stopped the crashes.
not the most ideal solution but maybe it will help ubtil a true fix.
Not sure it would...my Orbi is in bridged mode and thus doesn't answer DHCP requests.
rhester72 wrote:
cjperone100 wrote:When this happened tp me. I changed pixel to static ip address rather than dhcp. it stopped the crashes.
not the most ideal solution but maybe it will help ubtil a true fix.
Not sure it would...my Orbi is in bridged mode and thus doesn't answer DHCP requests.
A bit more evidence that it doesn't seem to be DHCP-related...if I put the OnHub on a switch off my (not Orbi) router, even though the broadcast -reaches- Orbi, it doesn't crash...which strongly suggests that the traffic causing the crash is unicast.
cjperone100 wrote:When this happened tp me. I changed pixel to static ip address rather than dhcp. it stopped the crashes.
not the most ideal solution but maybe it will help ubtil a true fix.
Out of curiosity, is there IPv6 on your network ?
Chimming in here as I am experiencing the same issues. I actually had no idea this was related to the Orbi routers, as many have already stated the idea that a client device can actually cause a stability issue with the wifi infrastructure is incredibly strange. Unfortunately, I didn't come across this post until a few blogs started reporting it and I went through a lengthly debugging effort that killed a ton of time. Rebuilding multiple domain controllers, swapping out switches and firewalls had no effect.
If I had to guess, i would probably say that this issue has been going on for the past 30 days or so, and that aligns with the December Security update for both of my android devices listed below (and also the U11 update to Oreo so not sure which is the cause). After reading through this post, I decided to connect my HTC U11 (Running 8.0 Oreo) and Galaxy S7 (Running 7.0) to my Verizon FiOS WiFi gateway rather than the Orbi and the problem stopped immediately. It was pretty easy to tell this fixed things as my home theater system would regularly flash "WiFi Disconnected" and "WiFi Connected" repeatedly while these android devices were connected to the Orbi. Unfortunately/Fortunately if you have Verizon FIOS you are often stuck with their Wifi gateway device and forced to double NAT your prefered device by simply hooking up the WAN Port of the Orbi to the Ethernet of the FIOS Gateway; I usually just disable the WiFi... in this scenario it's actually helpful to have this available for testing.
Before switching to the Orbis, I tried out the Linkysys Velop system but found it was also incredibly unstable and the 3 satelites would regularly loose connectivity with the primary router. I've heard that the Velop did not play well with more nodes, adding lag and stability issues after 2 nodes which aligned with my experience. I also didn't like how the Velop lacked OpenVPN, DynamicDNS, didn't have a WebUI for advanced users and it didn't allow you to disable DHCP (on that note, yes my Orbis are configured to disable DHCP). My reasoning for jumping into the mesh networking world to begin with was the ongoing security issues with the Netgear Nighthawk router but at this point it sounds like stability tradeoffs and security problems across the board
- Try setting static IP for android devices. Has worked for me during the last 24 hours.
- Assigning a static IP address was the first thing I tried. Had zero impact for me. I first thought there was some sort of IP conflict which is why I went to a static address. No dice.
I was able to open a support ticket outside the 90 day return policy. I just needed to call into the 800 number to create the ticket. I'm on level 3 support with engineering looking at it. That being said and after two weeks, we're no closer to a solution from Netgear. They keep coming back to me with things that I've either tried or things that older community threads have talked about. No new solutions or acknowlegements that they've found issue.
They also really don't seem to care that this thread exists. Its not like we're helping them debug this issue with all our attempts to fix it through setting and enviormental changes (sarcasim).
the problem apears to be coming from Android Oreo devices... I verified by turning off wifi on my phone(Oreo 8.1) last night, haven't had any issues with Orbi... Netgear still has to come up with a fix for their end, because no way should a client be able to disrupt and REBOOT a router!
- This problem is not caused by Android Oreo, can we please stop blaming the issue on that? I have Android 7.1 and am impacted by frequent reboots.
Same issues. It started for me using the latest 2.1.1.16 version
It happens once a day now, it also happens exactly at 9am my time. There is no schedules shutdown or anything (Netgear has no option for this anywhere on the Orbi).
The devices connected are:
2 TVs (Samsung 8500 4K and Samsung 32' 720p TV both using a Chromecast 4K)
2 PCs (One laptop, one desktop)
2 Samsung 7
1 Samsung 8s
1 Samsung 5
1 Samsung 4
(Seeing this list looks like am a fan of samsung, never noticed that)
Since I work entirely from the internet, this happening to me it's a big problem. What other options are out there compared to Orbi?
After having an Orbi for 3 days and it rebooting every 15 min (upgrading to the latest firmware made it worse) I returned my Orbi and got a Linksys Velop. Network has been rock solid for several days now.
- I replaced my Orbi with Eero. It's been rock solid for several weeks now. Not one single issue.
RBR50 + 1x RBS50 - running firmware v. 2.1.1.16 with Circle enabled
Already factory reset and tried every other recommendation mentioned here. We have a total of 5 Android 7.1.1, no Oreo. In all, 14 hardwired devices and 19 wireless. This is well under the 250 clients Netgear says Orbi can support and the 50 at higher utilization. But I still see the CPU pretty high when on the debug screen. Not convinced these devices aren't CPU strapped. Wish I could get SNMP out of this box to track utilization better. Anyone done this with scripting and telnet?
Well, on to the support case:
Just spent a couple hours one the phone with support. Let's just say either they have no clue what is going on with these routers or they won't own up to any issues. After getting over the horrible phone latency to India, I worked with one support person that insisted it was a power issue and wanted me to switch the power brick with the one from my satellite. Reluctantly I did. Surprise, no change. He also had me change the router WAN MTU to 1450. Why the heck that would help, but ok, I'll play. Said to call back if the router reboots again. I said talk to you soon.
Asked my kids to "break the Internet" as we have come to refer to the issue. Within 15 minutes they said, "we broke it". At least this gave me 15 minutes to use the restroom and get a snack. I then called back into Netgear support. After putting me on hold for 10 minutes, they came back saying I need to replace the router. I offered debug logs and panic logs, I want to help fix this. They had no interest. Just RMA the router. Makes me think there is a known hardware issue.
First option was to send in the router and they would ship me the new one free of charge. I can't just not have a router, so I asked for another option. They said for $19.95 they could send me an advanced replacement and I could send mine back. Are you kidding me? Let's just say after a heart to heart discussion and another long hold, I got the advanced replacement for free. I said great, shipping out Monday. He went to setup the RMA and had to put me on hold again. When he came back on the line he said they have no stock of the router and I will have to call back in tomorrow, Sunday. WTF? At this point it has to happen. Not sure what I will say if they still tell me they have no stock tomorrow. No stock? Thinking even more that it is hardware related. Not sure how long this will go on.
I urge anyone with this issue to call in instead of expecting a fix reading this thread. It is a hardware issue and they cannot make you pay for support if you are still under warranty.
Stay tuned.
- kryan27 thanks for the good info. Could someone verify that a hardware replacement fixes their issue? I am not convinced that it would, since the problems started recently. I am in some kind of a weird Twilight Zone endless loop when I try to call them. I am outside my 90 days but inside the one-year mark, but still cannot get a phone number to call them. I guess if a hardware replacement fixes the issue, I don't think anyone's going to bother coming back over here to post about it.
I seem to be a victim of this issue as well. I have been trying to diagnose periodic lost connections on my Orbi. I am on firmware 2.0.0.74 and have not tried updating to any newer firware versions. I did a factory reset this weekend to rule that out as a conributor. Then, after a lot of testing yesterday, I was able to duplicate the issue with one Pixel running 8.1 and the January patch. Consistently, if I let the phone sit for a while (30+ minutes?) and then wake it up, the Orbi looses all connections in the base and satellite and both the Wifi and wired LAN connections. The whole netork goes down and the connection to the cable modem is lost (the link light on the modem stops blinking). I have three other Android devices running in the house, a 6P on 8.0, a 5X on 80 and a 6 on 7.1.1 (or something close to that whatever the last official OTA update was). I have not been able to duplicate the issue with those devices yet. For the next few days I will leave my Pixel Wifi off and see what level of improvment I can measure.
However, I am not comletely convinced this is the only problem with my Orbi right now. I have been running a stability test on it and not surprisingly over the night with no usage, the connection remained up. But for some reason I found a disconnect this morning early at 5:30 AM. That one I can't explain yet. I am going to keep testing and try turning of the other Android Wifi one by one to see if the issue stops.
This issue does seem to be spreading somewhat. Since turning off wifi to my phone (Note 5) it has been much less of an issue. But I had an old tablet (original galaxy Tab S) and a fire HD 8, and Fire HD 10 all cause the drop on rare occassion. It is not near as much with the Samsung phone, but I have still noticed it. Other devices, Xbox, roku, fire tv, etc have not seemed to have done it.
As and update to my previous post, and based on the suggestion of others, yesterday I connected an old Asus router in AP mode to my Orbi router and connected all Oreo devices (8.0 & 8.1) to the Asus. So far this has eliminated the Orbi crashes. It is possible the Asus is crashing but that is not as noticeable with only phones connected to it. When the Orbi goes down it typically interferes with users streaming video or gaming and is therefore very noticeable and annoying!
This is not the best solution but certianly a good workaround until either Google or Netgear can implement a fix.
My additional $0.02 while using a Pixel 2 on the December patch:
1. When the satellite is online every time my phone connects, or every time it wakes from sleep, the Orbi router reboots. The satellite stays active and responsive. However, I'm always connected to the router, not the satellite.
2. When the satellite is offline, rather than rebooting the router, the wifi just drops. Each time this happens the following shows up in dmesg:
[wifi1] FWLOG: [133669581] WAL_DBGID_SECURITY_UCAST_KEY_SET ( 0xad79, 0x0 ) [wifi1] FWLOG: [133669581] WAL_DBGID_SECURITY_ENCR_EN ( ) [wifi1] FWLOG: [133669581] WAL_DBGID_SECURITY_ALLOW_DATA ( 0x43eb8c ) missing case for op class 83 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 84 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 116 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 117 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 118 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 119 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 120 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 121 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 122 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 123 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 124 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 125 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 126 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 127 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 128 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan missing case for op class 130 in ieee80211_mbo_operating_class_to_chan Disabled for Offload Architecture [wifi1] FWLOG: [133671920] RATE: ChainMask 3, peer_mac ad:79, phymode 10, ni_flags 0x0621b006, vht_mcs_set 0xfffa, ht_mcs_set 0xffff, legacy_rate_set 0x0ff0 [wifi1] FWLOG: [133671920] RTT_REPORT ( 0x2804, 0x3, 0x479, 0x0, 0x9 ) [wifi1] FWLOG: [133672064] MGMT_TXRX_MU_GID_MGMT ( 0xaf, 0x2, 0x0, 0xfffe, 0x0 ) [wifi1] FWLOG: [133672064] MGMT_TXRX_MU_GID_MGMT ( 0xb3, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0 ) [wifi1] FWLOG: [133672064] MGMT_TXRX_MU_GID_MGMT ( 0xadd, 0x2, 0x0 ) [wifi1] FWLOG: [133672427] WAL_DBGID_SECURITY_UCAST_KEY_SET ( 0xad79, 0x0 ) [wifi1] FWLOG: [133672427] WAL_DBGID_SECURITY_ENCR_EN ( ) [wifi1] FWLOG: [133672427] WAL_DBGID_SECURITY_ALLOW_DATA ( 0x43eb8c ) Switching to Tx Mode-1 Threshold 0 [wifi1] FWLOG: [133674728] WAL_DBGID_TX_BA_SETUP ( 0x43eb8c, 0xad790006, 0x2, 0x40, 0x1 ) [wifi1] FWLOG: [133674739] RATE: ChainMask 3, peer_mac ad:79, phymode 10, ni_flags 0x0621b006, vht_mcs_set 0xfffa, ht_mcs_set 0xffff, legacy_rate_set 0x0ff0
Interesting. I'm curious to know if you have fast roaming on or off. And, does this log behavior change at all if you toggle that setting. I ask, because I'm pretty sure that "MBO" has to do with roaming behavior.
RobbieCrash wrote:My additional $0.02 while using a Pixel 2 on the December patch:
1. When the satellite is online every time my phone connects, or every time it wakes from sleep, the Orbi router reboots. The satellite stays active and responsive. However, I'm always connected to the router, not the satellite.
2. When the satellite is offline, rather than rebooting the router, the wifi just drops. Each time this happens the following shows up in dmesg:
...
All three advanced options are on, disabling them has no impact on the messages logged in dmesg, nor does it seem to impact stability at all.
- If you haven't seen it yet, it looks like the TP-Link crew has figured it out and published an explanation:
https://9to5google.com/2018/01/15/google-chromecast-home-wifi-outage/amp/
The longer explanation is embedded in the TP-Link engineer's post in the article. Seems like it has to do with Google's Cast-enabled devices and their behavior when they wake up from sleeping. This would explain why it could never be narrowed down to just Android 8, Pixel devices, etc., and even some with those devices reported no issues. Seems if you have a cast enabled phone, or even a Google Home or Android TV device, you could be affected.
At least it appears Google has acknowledged the issue, and TP-Link and Linksys have already patched the issue. Here's hoping Netgear follows suit in short order. I installed the beta update for Google Play Services on 4 Android phones and ran them all weekend with zero Orbi crashes. The beta app does fix the problem. My advice to anyone with this frustrating issue: Do not wait for Google to release the official app... Who knows how long that will take... Sideload the APK immediatly!
https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/google-inc/google-play-services/google-play-services-11-9-74-release/
An important reason for Netgear to add their own protection against this vulnerability is that even as the Chromecast dust settles, hackers are swarming to Android's open source playground to re-exploit it.
- Uh oh. Running 11.9.75 Google Play Services on all 3 of my Android phones, and just had a reboot as soon as my wife touched her phone this evening. I wonder if the other devices need this Play services update also. This is getting really old!