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Forum Discussion
SONOS Compatability with Orbi
Is Orbi compatable with the SONOS mesh network? I have an extensive SONOS system throughout my house (7000 sq ft). It works flawlessly and I have wondered why a mesh network for a LAN application has not been available before now. If Orbi works like my SONOS system and is compatable, it will be a real game changer.
148 Replies
- I've had no problems. Wired directly to router and have 3 Amps all running perfectly and I have the 2.4 band off as well. Like I said, I basically setup the Sonos as a New system once I wired my connect to the Orbi Router. Works all over the house.
That worked for me as well to fix Sonos (only tested briefly). This thread isn't really a Sonos compatibility thread for me anymore. I'm having problems with *everything* connected via wifi or wired to any satellite (not the router).
Orbi satellites are dropping all connectivity for everything for me. But since most things don't constantly use the network, I didn't notice until Sonos constantly failed (the effected wifi devices would simply jump to the other satellite or router unit which would cause me to miss the fact that a satellite is down). If I connect anything and stream (say apple tv, or sonos, or a gaming system) through a satellite unit (again, not the router unit), I'm plagued with connectivity issues. Example, I had a number of video conferences on my laptop. I was d/c every 3-5 minutes while an orbi satellite unit became unavailable.
This thread should be renamed: "Orbi Satellite units not stable". Sonos was just the thing that helped me discover that. I'm betting if I used only the Orbi router unit, everything would work fine. (It did briefly when I put a speaker in my office to reset it, but I didn't keep it there long enough to test the theory). But that isn't any better than just using my Airport Extreme.
So far, eero is working. But, orbi appeared to work the first day or two as well. So we'll see if this trend continues.
--DerrekHello dieute
If you have tried changing channels and changing the placement of the satellite and still losing connection all the time you may want to contact our support could be a issue with the satellite and they can help resolve the issue. The satellites shouldn't be dropping connection all the time like you are describing.
https://www.netgear.com/support/contact.aspx?cid=wmt_netgear_organic
DarrenM
I spent a few days evaluating eero. I have finally put it back in the box to return tonight.
The end result is it simply isn't worth the price point for a myriad of reasons. I really wanted to like it. It is the most like old apple products that "just work" out of the box. But for $500 I shouldn't be having sonos issues. I shouldn't be experiencing weird networking outages. Etc. During my testing firmware 2.1 came out and may have fixed these issues. But by that time, I was essentially done.
Google wifi is much cheaper and was showing similar capabilities in the end. On top of that, it seemed to always work. I didn't have a single weird networking thing while using Google Wifi (not with my systems or sonos). It also started producing test results in the speed range I wanted (turns out my internet was partly responsible for that on both eero and google). The only real "flaw" is fewer features than eero. I don't need any of those eero features, but they are not present on google wifi (yet). I am giving this as the gift to my mom. It should work very well for her. I will purchase a second pack for myself if orbi doesn't work out (see below).
I continue to like orbi. I am planning on re-buying the orbi 3-pack to test the new firmware (a minor update was released since I had it) and provide debug logs to netgear. I will purchase it at costco which will let me return things months after I purchase them if they aren't working (by the way, costco is amazing. this is not the first time they have been exceptional for me). I even asked at customer service (some exclusions apply, but they were upfront about it). So I don't have to worry about "netgear won't fix it within my return window". I will run my airport extreme network along side on a different channel so I have stable wifi.
Anyway, that's the result of my experiment in "mesh" networking.
--DerrekI've been testing out the google wifi, and so far I'm loving it. No sonos drop outs or other wifi issues. I also really like the android app. I don't need advanced network setup so it works for me. I'm still able to do IP reservations and some other things which is great. Netgear needs to really improve their interface strategy. Limiting to just the web is a very antiquated way of thinking. Changing the font and background color of the web UI does not constitute a new UI. Netgear is just dated.
Looks like my orbi will be routed back to best buy.
- I agree. If I had to make a decision today, it's google wifi. Honestly, if I find it in a store today, I might just buy it and be done with this hassle. Give my mom the new one and leave the one I'm testing setup. Good system.
I finally got around to buying orbi again from costco (my local warehouse had it in stock). I like google wifi, but a few things really sold me on trying orbi again:
1) The backhaul. This eliminates all congestion for busy networks.
2) It has 4 ports on every unit (removes the need for mini switches everywhere saving complexity and cost).3) Star topology. In my case this is a strength, not a weakness. No matter where I am in my house my networking is exactly the same everywhere. No hop penalties or shared backhaul issues.
4) Not so cloud focused that it can't run without the cloud. Meaning local network stays functional even if my internet dies. Yay.
The good news is I have not had internet this stable in months. So far, no sonos issues, no weird other networking issues and no fussing with the units (outside of having to do the manual firmware upgrade).
I believe I had a faulty unit last time. The setup and update process was much much smoother. It came up so fast on the latest firmware that I thought it didn't do the update.
I've only been running it for a day or two. If it stays this way, I'm pretty happy. Orbi for the win.
FYI: I was going to try Velop from linksys, but since the backhaul is inferior, I decided not to.
For me, orbi is worth the premium over Google Wifi (for 3 units). But if I weren't such a demanding user, Google Wifi would be the winner. It is still running superbly at my mom's house. Now when I go there I have internet everywhere. very good. And I manage it for her from here (even turning off the kid's internet access when they visit).
I hope everyone else got their issues resolved.
--DerrekHey Derrek,
I have installed Orbi's for freinds and familys in a couple homes with no issues and have loved the powerful backhaul and I still think it's the best consumer grade mesh system avalible, despite the mesh systems popularity rising. I am an IT engineer by trade so troubleshooting is usually pretty simple for me.
My issue is this, and this is how I found your thread. Today I was working on setting up Orbi with Sonos. Everything seemed to be working fine, but trying to setup the Sonos wirelessly with Orbi (Plug in to Orbi temp till it gets creds then remove) everytime I would remove the Sonos bridge from Orbi the Sono would lose connection to the network and make me try and setup Sonos wireless all over again.
So, having little expereicne with Sonos, I decided to just wire in one of the Sonos receivers directly into the Router portion of Orbi and leave it plugged in. Sonos had no issues then, no dropping, stable sound throughout the home. Well then I speedtested back where the satelite was.... which had changed its color to amber which means fair connection between the router and satelite, and now was only pulling 1-25 mb/s of the previous 125 it should have been pulling before Sonos was setup.
I could replicate it that Sonos was indeed interferring with Orbi. Now I am trying to determine if they are truly incomatible, or can be tweaked to work together and that is what I am trying to determine from the feed.
The Router and The Satelite are on the latest firmware as of Today. I will try changing the channels this week (Saw that as a possible fix on this thread) to see if it alleviates the issues, but I have little hope.
In your last post it seems you have Orbi and Sonos working fine now? I do not completely understand the point of the Sonos bridge (I do not personally own a Sonos system) and if it is the only device causing the interference. It is not the "boost" just the bridge.
Sonos can introduce a number of issues to mesh networking devices. (Technically Orbi is not a "mesh" network, but the same issues apply because of the multiple physical units)
The bridge and boost serve essentially the same purpose, a purpose that was rendered unnecessary by updates to Sonos speakers. In the past, you needed a "base" for all the Sonos speakers to communicate. At some point Sonos enabled connecting directly to your own wifi network in which you plugin the ethernet cable, setup wifi and then unplug the speaker. If this doesn't work, you may have some speakers setup as one sonos network and others as another. I had a brief period where my speakers behaved as two independent Sonos speaker networks. Not sure how or why, but it was temporary as I was re-setting all network stuff.
Some caveats: If any single Sonos device is plugged in via ethernet, all sonos devices will prefer their own wireless network. I would avoid plugging in more than one device via ethernet. This likely creates the networking problems for mesh systems because it is unclear how protocols it uses should behave on a mesh network and each vendor behaves differently.
I only have two Sonos devices: A connect to play through my existing home theater system. I wired this to one of the Orbi's as they sit right next to each other. The other one (a play:1) connects over the built-in sonosnet created by the connect. This has worked essentially flawlessly on my replacement Orbi. No bridge, no boost, nothing else.
This all assumes you are on Sonos 7.1 (or whatever the latest released firmware).
Option 1: If one of the speakers (not bridge) is near the Orbi, use that one to plug-in to the Orbi and *only* that one. Then setup all speakers elsewhere and leave the bridge out of the picture (not needed). Finally, make sure the Sonosnet channel is opposite the 2.4ghz channel used by Orbi. I put Sonos on channel 11 because 1 was being used by Orbi (I believe that is Orbi's default). Easily done in Sonos app.
Option 2: If no speaker is near an Orbi, then put the bridge near the orbi, plug it in via ethernet, and only it (no other speakers via ethernet). Again, make sure the Sonos channel is opposite Orbi.
Option 3: The final option is to connect *all* speakers through Orbi wifi only. All Sonos devices must remain on wifi only and not wired. If anything is wired, it will flip to SonosNet usage. This works great at my mom's house where google wifi blankets the house in solid wifi and no Sonos device is near a wifi mesh point. But the SonosNet will often work better with interference.
The only reason Sonosnet wouldn't work is if the distances are too large for it to handle. This would be mansion size house like 10,000+ square feet between Sonos devices. This is where the Boost would become useful (the bridge could be used in this case as well). It is unlikely your own wifi will do better than sonosnet with boost/bridge devices.
The only downside to this (and what triggered me returning my first orbi) is if the satellite that the single wired Sonos is connected to starts misbehaving, all Sonos speakers will stop working. The wi-fi way, sometimes only the units connected to that satellite would stop. They might even switch to a functional satellite wifi signal.
I have not seen any of these issues in any Sonos configuration on the new Orbi. It's been working wonderfully daily.
--Derrek
- I have no problems with my Sonos. I have one component wired directly to the main Orbi and all the rest spread throughout the house. It works perfectly, no issues at all.
- In the sonos app settings -> advanced settings -> sonosnet channel.
Very easy. Try and avoid a full sonos reset as that will cause any favorites and account access to be removed. Removing the wireless settings should be enough.
Settings -> about my sonos system should show all connected speakers with WM: 0 and Version: 7.1 (build ......)
Try it out. Let us know how it goes!
--DerrekPerfect thank you for your input, I will update with what happens later this week. My step-by-step looks correct then right?
Best,
Jonathan
Dynamiteboy wrote:Perfect thank you for your input, I will update with what happens later this week. My step-by-step looks correct then right?
Best,
Jonathan
Good luck. Yes your steps look correct. This link explains how to switch from standard to "boost" setup. Boost is what Sonos calls the mesh network setup, even though no Boost device is required.
I setup exactly as we had spoken about:
- Sonos is on version 7.1 and all up to date
- Orbi is running the latest firmware
- One bridge is wired into the Orbi Router
- No other Sonos device is wired into any of the house drops
- Sonos has channel 11, Orbi has channel 1 on the 2.4ghz.
- Restarted the Orbi
Now the Satelite does not disconnect and the sonos system is setup (Had to relink all the speakers, probably due to this being a boost setup now), Sonos does not disconnect, but the strangest thing happens. Orbi speeds are erradict when music is playing! Should be 100-120mbs and when Music is playing it goes anywhere from 30-80mbs. The problem seems to reside when music stops and speeds on the phone and the laptop go back up to 120mbs stable.
Is anyone else experiecing this? There are no errors anywhere, but its an eradict speed. No ping drops either. Orbi and Sonos still don't seem to like each other though and its frustrating, I am not confident in them right now. I will continue to test and hope that Orbi has some sort of auto optimization features it is still trying to configure for the house just like other mesh setups have, but I honestly have little hope in these 2 devices working flawlessly together. There is no way that playing Sonos music should drop the internet speed 30-50mbs.
The phone and the laptop did not move both running tests on both fast.com and speedtest.net.
Jonathan
I have tested speed on my network after playing streem on my Sonos speaker and did not notice any difference in download speed. Not sure why you are having speed issues.
- If you have verified that the stability is with the wifi and not your internet connection, then I suggest doing the same with Ethernet plugged into the satellite. If that speed is stable while playing music, then it's not the backhaul.
The next thing to try is turning off the satellite entirely and see if the issue persists with just the router.
Do you have the 2 orbi or 3 orbi kit?Okay I will try that as well.
I have the Orbi 2 kit.
Dynamiteboy wrote:Okay I will try that as well.
I have the Orbi 2 kit.
I just tested with 9 sonos components actively playing a high-def stream from Pandora. There was no impact on the Orbi wireless throughput.
I have two bridges and 7 speakers, both old and new generation. I also have two CR200 controllers, which use the sonosnet wireless network.
Something must be misconfigured with your system, or there is something else going on that you haven't discovered yet.
- Yes you can mix and match wired and wireless. Just remember performance on that unit will be slower than the other two.
This does sound like wifi interference to me. If so, then the same thing will likely happen on google wifi. Should be interesting to see the results.
--Derrek
dleute wrote:
Yes you can mix and match wired and wireless. Just remember performance on that unit will be slower than the other two.
This does sound like wifi interference to me. If so, then the same thing will likely happen on google wifi. Should be interesting to see the results.
--DerrekI agree that is should by Wi-fi interference, but for that reason I am confused, as almost all Wifi interference should be able to be mitigated by changing channels and adjusting frequencies. Using a Wifi Scanner no other networks were on the Orbi or the Sonos channels. I just have a feeling that a different Wi-fi system like google will work. I won't know why it works, but I just want it to work at this point. Orbi and Sonos are both supposed to be plug and play and have not been thus far. I should not have to do this level of troubleshooting for either product and for that reason there is still an issue that either Sonos or Orbi needs to address, just not sure what that is.
If my Wifi tops out at 120mb/s, I think with 2 wired points and a wireless one in between with the sonos bridge plugged into one of them I have hopes that this will resolve my issues with speed drops.
A couple more questions:
- Do you reccommend an Onhub as one of the mesh points? If so which point? the main one? I have heard people getting better coverage with these (Obviously a bigger unit than google wifi)
- Would you reccommend taking the bridge out of the picture completely and just wiring in a Sonos Connect amp? This will still leave the Sonosnet intact I beleive.
I would personally avoid onhub for the time being. For one thing, there are 2 of them made by different manufacturers. For another, they are not entirely google controlled. In this case, I would say simplicity is better and stick with just google wifi units unless there is an issue that onhub can solve. Technically, onhubs may have better antennae arrangements, but that should only make a difference in the most extreme cases. Well placed google wifi units should just work.
It really shouldn't matter if you use a bridge or a connect. Like, really not at all. The only reason this would matter is if one of them was dysfunctional, then the other would work better. As I have only used a connect as my wired Sonos, I really can't speak to anything else. It seems to work well for me plugged into orbi. (They are less than an inch apart).
My advice is to start simple.
Dumb question of the day: Do you live near a police station, fire station, hospital or other public service?
--Derrek
- I spoke to soon. Currently sonos can't get through a whole song without failing.
- Fortunately I never had any issues with Sonos speakers. But I am using Sonos bridge to connect to my wifi network.
