Re: n600 c3700 usb port question - previous answer incomplete

BartZLederman · ‎2022-12-05

I'm helping a friend set up his N600 C3700V2 to be a DLNA server and File server. I did a quick test with one of my external USB hard drives, and it worked. However, I want to connect a much larger drive to the unit for him.

The previous discussion said the answer can be found in the User Manual. This is not true: the manual is missing some absolutely essential information. The information that is present in C30000v2_C3700v2_UM_All_MSOs_EN.pdf on page 39 is certainly useful, but it is incomplete.

It does not say if there is a maximum disk size or partition size the disk can have; there are many systems that can't go over 2 GB. It does not say if the drive can have multiple partitions: some systems that can't go over 2 GB per drive can accommodate a larger drive if it is divided into 2 GB partitions; other systems can only support a drive if it has one single partition.. It does not say if the drive has to be formatted / partitioned with MBR or GPT or can accept either one.

It can be very expensive to invest in a large USB disk drive only to find it can't work on the router. This information really needs to be included.

Can anyone say what the limits and missing specifications are?

Thanks.

FURRYe38 · ‎2022-12-05

https://kb.netgear.com/18985/Which-USB-drives-are-verified-to-work-with-NETGEAR-ReadySHARE?article=1...

https://kb.netgear.com/24059/What-are-the-USB-drive-requirements-for-ReadySHARE-on-my-NETGEAR-router...

plemans · ‎2022-12-05

The C3700 is a pretty low performing device with pretty anemic speeds on both the modem side and the wireless side.

I wouldn't be putting to much time/effort into getting it running decent as most ISP's probably won't support much for speeds on it being a 8x4 modem.

In terms of hard drives, thats harder as its literally a gamble. there's to many drives out there to test them all.

Your best bet is to connect that driver to a pc/laptop and use it as a shared storage and install a media server software to it like plex or jellyfin.

BartZLederman · ‎2022-12-05

Thanks for the links. They do help.

Unfortunately, there are still quite a few qualifications, such as "If you want to use a USB drive larger than 2 TB, you might need to format the drive into partitions smaller than 2 TB (for example, you might need to format a 4 TB drive into two 2 TB partitions).". This article doesn't actually say which routers have this limit, it appears to be quite old.

Both of these articles appear to apply to very old devices; the largest drive listed in the first article is 4 GB, which is 8 to 10 years out-of-date.

At least the articles say that USB 3.0 drives are backwards compatible in at least some circumstances ( the C3700 manual says it's USB 2.0).

Some other routers will work with drives up to 8 TB, but they don't say if that's one partition or multiple partitions, and I don't know if the other routers are newer or older than the C3700. Since my friend bought the C3700 recently, it is hopefully one of the newer models.

Apparently, the best Netgear can do is tell us to experiment with the drive, and hope it works.

Perhaps we (the community) will have to compile a list of drives on our own that will work. I can state that a Seagate SRD00F1 2 TB drive with a single partition, MBR partition and NTFS file system will work and can be powered by the C3700.

BartZLederman · ‎2022-12-05

"The C3700 is a pretty low performing device with pretty anemic speeds on both the modem side and the wireless side. I wouldn't be putting to much time/effort into getting it running decent as most ISP's probably won't support much for speeds on it being a 8x4 modem."

I disagree. The device is connected to Comcast / xFinity and is running quite well, going at the full speed my friend is paying for, and supporting multiple devices at speeds that do what he wants them to do: mostly serving videos, but also backups for other systems.

His "main" PC is running Windows and has been working as his DLNA server for some time, using Windows Media Player as the server. I set this up, and also set up my own system like it several years ago. Surprisingly, it works quite well with Roku, supplying more than enough bandwidth for HD videos on a very big screen TV. WMP was one of Microsoft's better products, which is probably why they cancelled it (I wish that was a joke, but it isn't).

Having one central server to act as a backup device for this PC, his laptop, is Surface Go, his cell phone, and his family's cell phones would be quite useful Since the C3700 is online all the time, it's a logical place to put a storage drive instead of having to have the PC on all of the time for that.

"In terms of hard drives, thats harder as its literally a gamble. there's to many drives out there to test them all. Your best bet is to connect that driver to a pc/laptop and use it as a shared storage and install a media server software to it like plex or jellyfin."

The goal here is to at least have a backup for the PC, and probably a replacement with the PC as the backup. As stated above, it has more than enough bandwidth for this application.

I don't know about jellyfin, but I have tested Plex and several other servers for this purpose, and, as amazing as it sounds, Windows Media Player worked better than any of the others I've tried, and doesn't "snoop" on the users the way Plex does. In my quick test I think the C3700 will work at least as well as a DLNA server, and should be good enough for occasional backups which can run at night when the router isn't being used very much.

You don't always need the biggest or the "best" for all applications.

I don't expect Netgear to test every hard drive on the market, but what I'm asking for is really very, very basic generic disk volume information that should be provided. Specifying which type of formatting is not brand or model or volume specific. Saying what the maximum supported partition size is should not be a secret, and should not require testing many different drives: the people at Netgear who installed the firmware / software should know what size drive is supported, and share that with us. No brand names or models are needed.

plemans · ‎2022-12-05

I 100% agree that the biggest isn't always the best.

And while its working right now, it probably won't always be. The isp's have been dropping the speed tiers on docsis 3.0 devices for what they support. For cox, anything over 150mbps is now starting to require docsis 3.1.(with a 32x8 modem) Xfinity hasn't been as bad at cox at it but they've been dropping it down as well. The modem in the c3700 used to support up to 343mbps. Xfinity has dropped that speed. I don't have the exact speed supported anymore because xfinity makes it a PITA to get but I'm betting its not much. In 2020 it was for up to 280mbps but that was before they started dropping speed tiers. The most recent I could find was support for up to 150mbps.

Its more something to keep in mind that he might not be getting the actual speeds he pays for and if he does, it might not be for much longer as the ISP's push for higher capacity and requiring docsis 3.1.

I made do the same way for quite a while with backing up devices to an external hard drive on a router. Then I moved to a dedicated server that hosts my backups and my plex server. It was a massive change. And it was a older intel 4 core computer that I picked up for free fixing something for someone. You don't realize how much the performance of the router was holding you back until you upgrade a bit. The usb 2.0 ports on the router are going to be a bottleneck. Plus its wifi is pretty slow. I've used one before for testing and it wasn't fast. yes you can stream netflix/youtube but its usually because those apps are great at buffering ahead and adaptive streaming for your service. When you start streaming live or actually checking what the shows are streaming at in terms of quality, is where you run into issues.

Again, not saying you can't use it. If its working, great! But its just something to keep in mind that it was a pretty basic modem/router when it was released and isn't getting any faster. Its going to be the bottleneck in the speed/performance of a home network.

the hard drives do make it more problematic. I usually just advise people to buy from somewhere with a good return policy in case it doesn't work. Also, get drives that are powered with an external power supply. I doubt that that usb port is going to be putting out much power. Netgear doesn't update much on their supported external power supplies and you see them moving away from it with removing support for USB services like readyshare vault.

BartZLederman · ‎2022-12-05

I understand your concerns. However, for this particular application, you are focused on the wrong end of the process.

For many people, the speed of the connection between themselves and whatever is at the other end of the Internet is of primary importance.

For people who are watching videos, as long as the internet link can handle the bit rate of the video, it's "good". The bit rate needed to watch most videos is an order of magnitude less than the current internet connection. I've seen 20 mbps connections handle multiple video streams. And, oddly enough, Comcast recently doubled my Internet connection speed at no additional cost (!!!), and my old Arris cable modem handles it just fine.

As for backups: yes, the connection through the router is important, but he's getting good speeds there. And, in his case, he's perfectly happy to start a backup before going to bed, and have it finished by the next morning. In his situation, cost is the overriding factor, and he's willing to trade speed for cost. As for the connections from his PC (the current DLNA server) through the C3700 to the TV; as I said, they have been more than adequate for even HD on a large screen TV. So the C3700 is working fine for him. Will it make everyone who tries one happy? Possibly not, but there is no reason to replace it at this time (and there is no such thing as "one size fits all" anyway). Plus, making the router the DLNA server removes a network link from the process, and USB 2.0 is fast enough to serve videos. Will he have to wait longer to load a new video from his PC to the router? Yes, probably, but that isn't an issue for him.

In this case, the worst that can happen is that the C3700 won't work as well as the PC as a server, and I can just move the USB hard drive from the router back to the PC. But having the USB drive set up and capable of working on the router means he would have a backup for the PC if it ever malfunctions by moving the external drive from the PC back to the router. In his situation, there are family reasons why he needs to be able to play videos through the TV reliably.

BartZLederman · ‎2022-12-13

I did some tests.

The C3700 is limited to 2 TB. It won't work with anything larger. I tried dividing a disk into several 1.9 TB partitions, but the C3700 won't mount any of them. It must have really ancient software in it, even though it was purchased new about a year ago.

We're just going to have to ignore that feature for now, or possibly plug in a 2 TB drive and use only some of the features. It did work with a single partition drive of less than 2 TB.

This is really disappointing.

plemans · ‎2022-12-13

@BartZLederman wrote:

This is really disappointing.

that a modem/router that was released 8 years ago doesn't have the features/capabilities of the modern devices? That it doesn't support larger hard drive formats that weren't available (or common if they were) when it was released.

NETGEAR LAUNCHES TWO NEW CABLE MODEM ROUTERS TO EXPAND YOUR HOME NETWORKING OPTIONS | NETGEAR

BartZLederman · ‎2022-12-13

The unit may have been first released a while ago: but USB drives greater than 2 TB certainly existed then.

That it hasn't been updated, even a little, and is still being sold NOW as a current device, shows that Netgear isn't really supporting their equipment.

plemans · ‎2022-12-13

@BartZLederman wrote:

That it hasn't been updated, even a little, and is still being sold NOW as a current device, shows that Netgear isn't really supporting their equipment.

On modem/router combo devices, its on the ISP to push the update to them. Netgear might have updates and submit them to the ISP but the ISP certifies them and sends them out. If they don't send them out, Netgear can't force them to. The ISP's not actually updating devices when there's updates available is why we don't usually recommend modem/router combo devices.