Re: Switching Networks Daily?

omatsei · ‎2017-08-05

We've had a D7000 router since October 2015, but over the last six months, it's gotten increasingly less reliable. Every day, or nearly every day, we have to switch networks from the 2ghz one to the 5ghz one or vice-versa. I've updated the firmware every time it's available, rebooted it regularly, moved it to a different location that's central to the house, etc. It's not that old, and it's kept in an open, clean area. The only "special" thing about it is that I turned off all the LED's in the settings, and I no longer use the DSL port because I got a cable modem. Is this just a problem with this model, or a problem with Netgears in general (this is my first Netgear), or is there something more dire wrong?

michaelkenward · ‎2017-08-06

@omatsei wrote:
Every day, or nearly every day, we have to switch networks from the 2ghz one to the 5ghz one or vice-versa.

Why? What prompts you to change?

That sounds more like an issue with your wifi clients than anything to do with the D7000.

You could try changing the wifi channels you use. Some people find that it helps not to use Auto for the band setting.

omatsei · ‎2017-08-06

Theres no prompt, the internet simply stops working. It's happened on every type of device, from iPhones (6, and two 7 Pluses) , iPads (generations 2, 3, 4, and an Air 1), MacBook Pros (2013 and 2015), MacBook Air (2012), Dell Latitudes (E7450, E5550 and E7470), Kindle (the kids one), Xbox (One and One S), PS4 (normal and Pro), etc. So it's safe to say it's NOT the clients. I will say it happens more often on the Apple devices, but there's such a huge range in the number and age of them, that if it was a problem with them, it would be a worldwide phenomenon. We also live in the middle of nowhere, so there's no competing wireless networks, so it's highly unlikely the channel is wrong. And it happens on the 5ghz network just as often as not, which makes it almost impossible that it's wireless interference.

Disclaimer: I work in IT and spent 2 years working as a tech at a wireless internet service provider so I've already done most of the "normal" troubleshooting things.

w3wilkes · ‎2017-08-06

When you say that "it happens more often on the Apple devices", when you notice that the first Apple device has lost it's WiFi connection have you checked to see that all the rest of your devices have also lost their WiFi connection? When you say that you switch back and forth from 2.4 to 5Ghz do you just switch at the device or do you reboot the router or do you log in to the router and shut off the radio that you're switching away from? When you have the failure have you used a tool like inSSIDer on your devices to check if inSSIDer can see your 2.4 and 5Ghz signals?

michaelkenward · ‎2017-08-06

@omatsei wrote:

....'ve already done most of the "normal" troubleshooting things.

We weren't to know that, which is why you will get asked possibly simple and redundant questions. All we can go on is previous messages on similar problems, and solutions that have fixed them.

Another obvious question that we don't know about, do the LEDs on the router give any clues?

omatsei · ‎2017-08-06

We notice it most often on the Apple devices, simply because we use them most often. There's no consistency to it... it's not like the 2ghz network stops working on all devices, then we switch to the other network. 3 devices could be on the 2ghz network, and 3 on the 5ghz, and only one of the devices will stop working at a time, forcing us to switch only that device to the opposite network. It's almost like the router picks that device and doesn't renew it's IP or something, which I haven't looked into. I suppose I could change the DHCP lease time, if that's possible (?). Rebooting the router itself is rarely necessary, but I have tried it on occasion to see if it fixes it for a longer period of time. Anyway, since the other devices on the same network continue to operate, it does seem sorta like a client issue, but since there's such a wide variety of affected clients, it has to be a router-client communication thing... but yes the other devices continue to see the 2.4ghz and 5ghz signals, so the networks still function, just not for whatever device decided to not be online anymore.

omatsei · ‎2017-08-06

No, I turned all the LEDs off, since they're super-bright and annoy me. 🙂 As far as I can tell, the router itself thinks everything's fine. I will have to try renewing the DHCP reservation on a device when it's affected, instead of switching networks or disabling/enabling the wifi like I've been doing. I'll post the results if/when I get a chance to try it.

michaelkenward · ‎2017-08-06

@omatsei wrote:
No, I turned all the LEDs off, since they're super-bright and annoy me. 🙂

I know what you mean. In the UK BT supplies a modem that looks like a psychedelic light show. Nasty horizontal blue bar that changes colour when the beast is connecting. Not good if the phone line lands in the bedroom.

Maybe worth turning them on temporarily to see if that offers any clues.

Do these mobile devices have the relevant Genie app? Yet another toy for an experienced network aficionado to play with.

Do the various tricks you have tried in your long list of troubleshooting options include a factory reset? I can't see that earlier in the discussion. It isn't always necessary, but a reset is something to try if you have post-flash issues. Saving the settings before you do it does at least give you a recovery option if you try it and it makes no difference.

w3wilkes · ‎2017-08-06

Do you have your network channels set to Auto? For instance, on your 2.4Ghz have you tried setting it to say channel 11 rather than auto? I've seen devices that don't deal well with the router set at auto and for whatever reason the router changes channels. Some devices just don't follow well. On the DHCP lease time... It's not going to happen. Netgear has determined that users are not capable of managing DHCP lease times so that control has been removed from things that the user can set. That is just one of the reasons that Netgear is off my radar whenever my next router upgrade is needed. And I also won't do Netgear for any of the other peoples consumer networks I support.

Bottom line, if just single devices are dropping it could very well be the device just as easily as it could be the router, but that doesn't change my own opinion of where Netgear has gone with their consumer network products. No support, no quality control on their firmware and what seems to be a complete lack of desire to listen to what users want in their devices... DHCP lease time is a prime example.

michaelkenward · ‎2017-08-07

Yes, the Auto thing was one of my thoughts. (See above.) But would it hit both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz?

We don't know if it was one of the many things that omatsei has tried.

Your explanation helps me to understand why it may be happening.

@w3wilkes wrote:
I've seen devices that don't deal well with the router set at auto and for whatever reason the router changes channels.

I assume that there is a reason why Netgear implements this Auto approach.

omatsei · ‎2017-08-08

I have the 5ghz set to a specific channel, but not the 2.4ghz. I did a factory reset about 3 or 4 times, although it has been a few months since the last time. It didn't seem to do anything to solve it. Since my last post, I've had a handful of instances of devices dropping offline, and about half of them can be cured with renewing the DHCP lease, and the other half didn't. I'm not sure if that's worth pursuing, but I'll try to keep more detailed logs of whether it works or not. Right now I'm thinking maybe I'll just put up with it until fall, and get an 802.11ax router when they come out. I only got this one because I needed a DSL modem and router combo, and now I have cable, so no DSL requirement opens me up to a lot more options.