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Re: Split WiFi Networks

Split WiFi Networks

Hello,

 

I just purchased the Nighthawk MR60 Mesh WiFi 6 system. I have a couple of indoor cameras that only work on 2.4 GHz, but they are able to connect to a 5 GHz network, so merged networks don't work with them. Is there a way to split the WiFi networks? There's nothing in the app or the admin portal that shows they can be split. Is there any way to do this on these devices?

Message 1 of 11

Accepted Solutions
Christian_R
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: Split WiFi Networks

Hello unimatrixjohnny, 

 

Welcome to the community! The MR60 Mesh System currently does not support this feature. However, this would be a great suggestion to be added in our Idea Exchange Board for new ideas to possibly be implemented in the future. 

 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Idea-Exchange-For-Home/idb-p/idea-exchange-for-home
 

Christian 

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Message 2 of 11

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Christian_R
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: Split WiFi Networks

Hello unimatrixjohnny, 

 

Welcome to the community! The MR60 Mesh System currently does not support this feature. However, this would be a great suggestion to be added in our Idea Exchange Board for new ideas to possibly be implemented in the future. 

 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Idea-Exchange-For-Home/idb-p/idea-exchange-for-home
 

Christian 

Message 2 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: Split WiFi Networks

One more of these odd questions...

 


@unimatrixjohnny wrote:

I have a couple of indoor cameras that only work on 2.4 GHz, but they are able to connect to a 5 GHz network, so merged networks don't work with them.


Sorry please? A 2.4GHz-only client can only connect to a 2.4 GHz radio - not the the 5 GHz radio. It does not matter if the same SSID is used on both the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz radios (on the router and all satellites). There is no "2.4 GHz" and no "5 GHz" network. All the radio interfaces and the Ethernet ports connect to the very same network - - everything does connect to the same layer 2 and layer 3 network.

 

Here again, for the first time in the 802.11 WiFi standards, with 802.11ax (WiFi 6) we have a design which is NOT designed for peak single client performance, but much more for enhanced concurrent usage. The MR60/Ms60 we talk of here does inherit by far not the fastest WiFi 6 technology available, otherwise the low cost would not be possible. The key features are coverage and availability without much effort - no single client speed wonders. Taking the fact that most installations will have much more older standard wireless clients, even lower-end spec'ed WiFi 6, makes the MK62 (or MK63) kit a nice player.

 

Not having 802.11k RRM (Smart Connect) in place will lead to sticky clients: They won't change away from the "poor-but-long-reach" 2.4 GHz unless the signal and quality will go submerging - this will hit especially clients roaming into the coverage area of the network. That's certainly not what you are behind, too.

 

This is why all newer 802.11ac and WiFi 6 extender implementations make use of 802.11k RRM, too.

 

If there are to many clients falling over to 2.4 GHz, the mesh should be resized to a more dense set-up.

 

In my opinion, there is no reason for not operating anything from a single router with two (or three) radios, a small mesh, and up to large scale event location, hospitality, or enterprise class WiFi installations without 802.11k RRM aka. Smart Connect.

And no, I'm not Netgear - and known for not holding back with criticism where valid. I fully disagree: Spliting SSID and killing Smart Connect would be a very bad solution!!!

Message 3 of 11

Re: Split WiFi Networks

That is 100% false. There are many devices that include dual band adapters but only function over a single band. Please don't provide poor advice like this to people.

Splitting the bands is absolutely necessary in many network applications.
Message 4 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: Split WiFi Networks


@unimatrixjohnny wrote:
There are many devices that include dual band adapters but only function over a single band.

This is a bad device then, typical IoT crap. Why should a WiFi client connect to the 5 GHz network - but not work ?!?

 

Provide examples please - "many" is simply useless.

Message 5 of 11

Re: Split WiFi Networks

I'm not here to educate you lol. There are many multi thousand dollar pieces of agricultural equipment that is this same way, many wireless home backup power supplies and home security systems that all function this way. It's cheaper to buy dual band wireless adapters than single band. The programming of the software/firmware is what determines the bands that it can function over, and there are many applications where connecting to a 5GHz band would be detrimental to the functionality of the equipment. Thanks for not helping at all by not knowing networking/programming at all.
Message 6 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: Split WiFi Networks

Yea, you got it exactly right - poor to awful programming would be exactly that: Complain to the IoT vendor, talk to your lawyer (product not fit for purpose!), or put the crap into the trash bin if they are unwilling to fix it. Not a problem to be resolved by forcing a crappy set-up.

 

If I don't want a dual-band WiFi client to connect to the 5 GHz network - the client developer has to disable the 5 GHz interface. That much about programming. 

 

Note: There are not many dual-band WiFi devices have such a control e.g. to disable the 5 GHz (or for the same alternate the 2.4 GHz) as it's simply not required in reality. 

 

Some community members started to collect a list of non-WiFi-compliant devices and/or et-up procedures ("connect oyur mobile to the 2.4 GHz nonsense...") in the Orbi community section ... I know it's not very long yet.

 

It's a good behavior to name these products in the public - not a question of educating me...

 

Message 7 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: Split WiFi Networks

All industry standard WiFi client chipsets have - for the client mode - only one configuration for the SSID, security mode and key. The decision which BSSID (wireless radio /radio MAC on the access points) the association is going to is done on the wireless module, with it's own processor, with it's own radio firmware - an area the typical software developer does never access or change, as they work on L3...L7 for the applications. The application software on a wireless device/IoT does not care or touch the connectivity - the application does not have to know if the connection goes over 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz, 60 GHz, LTE, copper Ethernet, fiber Ethernet, ... if the wireless environment does change, e.g. because of the wireless client moving, because of wireless AP radios coming up or going offline, the wireless module will seamless roam to another BSSID, regardless if it's a simple PSK environment, or some more complex business/corporate with external authentication - everything is part of the WiFi standards since about 2009.

 

I'm happy to explain why some IoT developers (resp. the makers of some low-cost embedded IoT chips) still have the idea that either only 2.4 GHz or the mobile with the App and thr IoT device is "required" to be on the same band can be used for the discovery. Discovery on a network does happen using some Broadcast or Multicast protocols. Some earlier crappy consumer routers (Netgear models included, most Broadcom devices btw.) had massive limitations (read: bugware) when it came to passing Broadcast or Multicast - not from the radio to the wired LAN, no .... between the radio modules (2.4 Ghz <-> 5 GHz). To work around this ... read this paragraph again.

The fun of a Mesh system - face it that most proprietary consumer WiFi mesh systems are marketing Mesh system as per the definition (they just implement 802.11k!), this has changed with the WiFi EasyMesh system - what we have on the MR60/MS60 here. 

Leaving the programming heroes or security "specialists" which are binding the client to a specific BSSID (the radio MAC for the base or additional MAC for multi-SSID/VLAN implementation) killing the basic design specs of WiFi.

Here again, if your AG stuff, your wireless home backup power supplies, and home security systems can't be discovered by some crApps so you think it does not "work" - talk to the respective vendors: It's their job to clean-up their s**t. And don't request the Mesh vendors to allow non-experienced users to cripple thier networks.

If you need the all-singing-all-dancing solution, implement SOHO/SMB equipment - there you are free to bring up additional ESSIDs limited to one or the other band, to selected APs for legacy devices (sigh!) - this won't kill the ability for refining and unlocking the potential of your network, now, and in the future. 

Indeed you are right in one point: I have no idea of networking and programming - I'm an engineer and I know that I know nothing at all. But I'm happy to learn every day. Have some long year experience in design, implementation and troubleshooting network modules, radio, Radar, infrared, visible light and laser sensors (ad-hoc cooled down to extremely low temperatures and flying up to Mach 3.6) and similar typicaly coloured RAL6014, sand, or Navy grey coloured - probably much longer than most of the community members here are on earth - and this includes low-level (on-module) device firmware on WiFi, radio link, and Radar modules.

Message 8 of 11
davel4wa
Tutor

Re: Split WiFi Networks

I have expressed the same concern about devices that I have that operate only on 2.4GHz wifi band. As expressed here devices that operate only on 2.4GHz will only connect in that band. The rub is that I have one device that sets up through an Android app and that app requires that the app platform be connected to the 2.4GHz wifi band. Luckily the app has an alternative method to connect and setup the device which works. That being said it is possible, I have now found, using the web page interface to the router, to disable either or both 2.4 and 5GHz radios in the 'Advanced Settings/Wireless settings menu. This should allow you to deal with your 2.4GHz devices setup and you can reenable the 5GHz band once you are done.

MR60 Nighthawk Mesh Wifi Router

Message 9 of 11
davel4wa
Tutor

Re: Split WiFi Networks

In regard to my previous post, the switches on the MR60 router 'Advanced Setup/Wireless Settings' do NOT turn off the wireless radios but simply select whether or not the SSID is broadcast which is sort of senseless as both radios have the same SSID.

The alternative to dealing with 2.4GHz only devices for me, was to use my TPLink wifi extender which only supports the 2.4GHz band. By connecting my phone wifi to the extender it is possible to set up those devices which require the 2.4GHz band.

 

Nighthawk MK62 Mesh router

 

Message 10 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: Split WiFi Networks

@davel4wa wrote:

 I have that operate only on 2.4GHz wifi band. As expressed here devices that operate only on 2.4GHz will only connect in that band. As expressed here devices that operate only on 2.4GHz will only connect in that band.


A device with a 2.4 GHz client only, will always only connect to the 2.4 GHz band for the obvious reason. Nothing is stopping this. The presence of what ever other wireless or wired connection layers is not relevant: These devices simply wont care! 

@davel4wa wrote:

The rub is that I have one device that sets up through an Android app and that app requires that the app platform be connected to the 2.4GHz wifi band.


Talk to the vendor of this Po* - the discovery might initially using some local WiFi connection from the mobile to the device itself, then configure the SSIDs and security, then discover again using some L3 and up protocol. Changing their discovery Apps for not checking a 2.4 GHz connection is established, or to allow to continue regardless would be a snap. Have just set-up an Arlo camera with 2.4 GHz only these days - the App asked to connect to the 2.4 GHz WiFi, said OK, continue, ...knowing the mobile is on the 5 GHz ... the discovery and the set-up went through completely seamless. Gee, on the network there is no difference, regardless if the device is connected on 2.4, 5, 60 GHz, Ethernet, Fast Ethernet, Gigabit Ethernet, 10G Ethernet, 40G Ethernet, ...

Love to hear the idea of using an alternate WiFi router using the same SSID and security on the 2.4 GHz band made the configuration of the same device settings possible. Some IoT makers seem to even check the MAC - so the device won't associate with the Mesh WiFi later - so this does not always work.

Message 11 of 11
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