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Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

Hi, I tried to search the community but have not found what i was looking for so if i missed something, feel free to just point me to the right thread... 

 

I have a 2 floor house, wooden. approx 170 squaremeters in total...

I bought a Nighthawk R7000 back in 2015 (i think) and as it still caused some deadspots (especially on the 2nd floor) i added in Orbi RBR50 back in 2017. I am using the R7000 as the router and the RBR50 in access point mode. I have disabled the wifi in the router so Orbi is providing wifi while R7000 is managing "the cables" and internet connection. Both orbi devices are connected to R7000 by cable. It worked great but in the last 6 months i have been having problems.

 

I need to also point out i have a lot of devices at home connected to the network. The more "fixed devices" like dekstop PC's, Apple TV, ReadyNas and so on is on a wired network for max performance while anything else is on wifi such as smart phones, Philips Hue, Netgear Arlo, home security system and so on. I think i have a bit above 50 devices connected to the network NOT counting all the Hue bulbs and accessories.

 

I also have Netgear Armor enabled and installed (great stuff in my view)

 

From time to time i now get drops in connectivity, streaming that suddenly start buffering (if on wifi, not on wired!), internet drops and so on.

 

Does anyone have a similar setup and my main questions are:

1. Does above sound reasonable as a setup? Or should i try something else as "backbone" for network? Any adjustments you would recommend on existing setup?

2. It feels like the R7000 has come of age. Is there a risk that security updates are dropped and similar? Any insight? When i manage it, it feels "slow" in interaction.

3. Any suggestion for setup based on my above "requirements" with no of devices and type of house?

4. I have an issue in accessing the R7000 through the Nighthawk app as it points out i am not connected (by wifi) to R7000 and thereby it ends. I do not want to enable the wifi on R7000 as i fear it will "mess with my mesh". Any known workarounds? Or is the "web-access" the only possible one?

5. Netgear Armor - should it be connected to both R7000 and Orbi or...? Any recommendations on how you have used Netgear Armor in the best possible setup.

 

Lots of questions. I hope you can help me with some recommendations or point me to valid information if you know there is.

 

Thanks!

 

//Mats

Model: R7000|AC1900 Smart WIFI Router, RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 1 of 17

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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

To sum up this thread for any future useage:

 

You can find best setup in the following links in regards to Orbi:

https://www.tech21century.com/netgear-orbi-questions-and-answers/

https://averagetechblog.com/how-to/netgear-orbi-settings/

 

After review of several sources and chat within this thread, it seems having the router (R7000) as router is the best thing but disable the wifi of the router. Use Orbi as main Wifi-connector!

If you can, then connect Orbi by cable to the router, disable daisy-chain in Orbi RBR50 unless you have 3 satellites or more OR have in a chain situation like RBR - Sat - Sat approach... and if you have them connected by wore / cable to the router you should not need to have daisy chain either...

 

So, above are my findings after a lot of reviews and questioning.

 

Netgear Armor has for me been very useful, covering unlimited devices. The portal is still a bit "crappy" but finctionality remains good. Both Orbi as well as the R7000 can enable Netgear Armor for you.

 

If you want to use teh Nighthawk APP you need to enable and connect to the Nighthawk wifi (i set up a small "admin SSID" that i use now and then but disable it, when in "normal use".

 

Also, please note - my R7000 did NOT find the latest firmware that was released in early April. I had to update manually to close the security flaw. Might be useful to know!!

.

 

 

View solution in original post

Model: R7000|AC1900 Smart WIFI Router, RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 15 of 17

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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

Add more Orbi satellites?

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 2 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

Hello, @Mats-cz
welcome to the community!

 

I can try to give some answers, based on what you have described in your post.

 

1) The setting seems quite correct and functional, however I should ask you if in the path between the various devices, routers / satellites there are obstacles that can somehow make the connection unstable.
Also, are all the devices updated with the latest firmware version?

 

2) As for possible "deletions" or "reductions" in the next firmware releases for R7000, unfortunately, I can't help. I encourage you to check the device page regularly to check for any new updates.

 

3) The best solution considering your needs, is to set R7000 in AP mode and to put ORBI as a router, so that you can increase the range of your WiFi network, attaching, if possible, satellites to the ORBI router, thus guaranteeing the possibility of connecting other devices.

 

4) If the R7000 is in Access Point mode, some of its functions will be disabled and it will not be possible to access it, for this reason you will encounter errors by connecting with the Nighthawk App.

 

5) You can find a list of products that support NETGEAR Armor on this page

 

The drops in connectivity could be due to the high number of devices connected together, or to environmental interference.

 

Greetings
Marco
Team NETGEAR


____
Gentilmente clicchi KUDOS se ha trovato la risposta utile e ACCETTARE COME SOLUZIONE se opportuno.

Message 3 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

 


@MarcoBr wrote:

4) If the R7000 is in Access Point mode, some of its functions will be disabled and it will not be possible to access it, for this reason you will encounter errors by connecting with the Nighthawk App.

 

You can access the R7000 in AP if you know the IP address that your router has allocated it. (This will appear in the router's list or in something like the Netgear desktop genie for your operating system.) Just aim a browser at the ip address.

 

For the sake of convenience. some of us setup our networks so that the AP device always gets the same IP address from the router. Then we can bookmark the IP address and get there whenever we feel the urge.

 

What will not work is an address like routerlogin.net.

 

Here is a full list of disabled functions that might be useful.

 

Disabled Features on the Router when set to AP Mode | Answer | NETGEAR Support

 

Some of us also put the Orbi system into AP mode and leave the router to do its thing. But it you have Armor on the Orbi, that is best left as the router.

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 4 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

Hmm.. i was expecting the reply to be tagged to the post i hit reply to but it seemed to end up further below... 

Anyway, with reply to this one:

Add more Orbi satellites?

 

Most likely a good suggestion assuming it would help. Would you think that it is the number of devices causing issues? No real chnages has been added to the house apart form more devices of course. Or would you deem outside interference if neighbours step up their game in "stronger wifi"?

And if i add more Orbi's, would it make sense to ditch the R7000 totally or is it a better router than the Orbi?


@michaelkenward wrote:

Add more Orbi satellites?




Message 5 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?


Thanks for your reply! I added in my response under each bullet and hope you can help me a bit further... Smiley Wink
@MarcoBr wrote:

Hello, @Mats-cz
welcome to the community!

Many thanks!

I can try to give some answers, based on what you have described in your post.

 

1) The setting seems quite correct and functional, however I should ask you if in the path between the various devices, routers / satellites there are obstacles that can somehow make the connection unstable.
Also, are all the devices updated with the latest firmware version?

Yes, all have latest firmware and are updated. If the setup seem right, is the R7000 a "better" router than the Orbi?

 

2) As for possible "deletions" or "reductions" in the next firmware releases for R7000, unfortunately, I can't help. I encourage you to check the device page regularly to check for any new updates.
Thanks. Will do.

 

3) The best solution considering your needs, is to set R7000 in AP mode and to put ORBI as a router, so that you can increase the range of your WiFi network, attaching, if possible, satellites to the ORBI router, thus guaranteeing the possibility of connecting other devices.
Hmm.. i struggle a bit here. If i put the Orbi in router mode, would it not be easier to just add another Orbi satellite and ditch the R7000 or does the R7000 play a valid role in AP mode? I was a bit under the belief that R7000 could be a better router approach than the Orbi but if not, then adding an Orbi satellite and remove the R7000... would that help "streamline" things? Simplify it?
Also, i have not seen any chnages by adding specific items that coudl distrub the signals apart form more smart devices of course. Could that be an issue considering "only" having an Orbi + satellite? Would an additional satellite help handle all the devices better or would a shift to the new Wifi6 be a better option even?
Currently R7000 is my router and that is also what the Netgear Armor is connected to (even if it states something different in german of all langiages Smiley Wink )

 

4) If the R7000 is in Access Point mode, some of its functions will be disabled and it will not be possible to access it, for this reason you will encounter errors by connecting with the Nighthawk App.
OK. see my question 3 as i wonder if the R7000 "AP mode" is a better solution than adding an Orbi satellite? is there a risk that I "make it more complex" by having 2 "different types" running the same SSID? I assume the Orbi using one technology while R7000 is usinga different one?

 

5) You can find a list of products that support NETGEAR Armor on this page

Thanks!

The drops in connectivity could be due to the high number of devices connected together, or to environmental interference.

OK. So adding more AP to handle the volume of devices would/could make a positive difference?

Greetings
Marco
Team NETGEAR


 

Message 6 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

Thanks Michael. think i got a handle on teh reply now as well... Smiley Happy

See my response below...  in case you can help me further.

 


@michaelkenward wrote:

 


@MarcoBr wrote:

4) If the R7000 is in Access Point mode, some of its functions will be disabled and it will not be possible to access it, for this reason you will encounter errors by connecting with the Nighthawk App.

 

You can access the R7000 in AP if you know the IP address that your router has allocated it. (This will appear in the router's list or in something like the Netgear desktop genie for your operating system.) Just aim a browser at the ip address.

 

For the sake of convenience. some of us setup our networks so that the AP device always gets the same IP address from the router. Then we can bookmark the IP address and get there whenever we feel the urge.

Good idea. Thanks. Will try that out.

What will not work is an address like routerlogin.net.

 

Here is a full list of disabled functions that might be useful.

 

Disabled Features on the Router when set to AP Mode | Answer | NETGEAR Support

 

Some of us also put the Orbi system into AP mode and leave the router to do its thing. But it you have Armor on the Orbi, that is best left as the router.
I have the Armor connected to the R7000 and the Orbi in AP mode. i am looking for experiences if you or anyone else deem the R7000 as a better router than the Orbi or vice versa. If the Orbi router is as good as the R7000, i could possibly simply disconnect the R7000 and add in an Orbi satellite to "streamline" things and keep myself into "one product family only" IF that would help. As said, looking for experiences in how well things work as well as if Nighthawk versus Orbi when it comes to router-experiences / performance. 

 


Thanks!

 

Message 7 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?


@Mats-cz wrote:


I have the Armor connected to the R7000 and the Orbi in AP mode.

 


 


I'd stick with that.

 

Not all routers support Armor. Does your Orbi?

 

I have an R7800 router, probably better than the R7000, and is the connoisseur's pick of Netgear's routers, but I don't think it supports Armor. (I beta tested it on the R7000P.)

 

My Orbi is in AP mode. Experience tells me that Orbi supports AP mode much better than the R series routers. And generally R series routers offer more features than the Orbi as a router. But you'd have to compare and contrast to get a definitive assessment.

 

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 8 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

I searched further on the internet and came by this article (with all comments). Could be useful...

https://www.tech21century.com/netgear-orbi-vs-nighthawk-wifi-routers/

 

Anyway, it seems by this article that R7000 is a "better router" or at least have more possible configurations including Advanced QoS... When using Orbi together with Nighthawk there was a recommendation to use Orbi for wireless and not have Nighthawk doing any wireless (when acting as router). Not sure if anyone else has similar or different experiences?!
The R7000 is from early 2016 as well so not sure if it is the fastest and most reliable. Could a new Nighthawk make a big difference even if i do not use it for wireless?

 

So many questions... Smiley Wink

Message 9 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?


@Mats-cz wrote:

When using Orbi together with Nighthawk there was a recommendation to use Orbi for wireless and not have Nighthawk doing any wireless (when acting as router). Not sure if anyone else has similar or different experiences?!

 

That is the usual advice. There are a couple of reasons for this.

 

For a start you don't want too many wifi sources around to interfere with each other and to confuse your wifi clients. And Orbi systems usually come with satellites and "Mesh" technology that provides a smoother handover from source to satellite as you move around with your wifi clients.

 

I have experimented with turning on and off the router wifi (the R7000 in your case but here an R7800). I saw no adverse effects. But my Orbi is about 20 feet away and on Powerline ethernet. I generally keep the wifi off on the R7800 because I don't need it.

 

The Orbi is generally designed to be easier to use, but that can mean less controllable, a feature that upsets some propeller heads who like to mess around under the bonnet, often for no obvious reason.

 


@Mats-cz wrote:

Could a new Nighthawk make a big difference even if i do not use it for wireless?

 


Only if you desperately need a new router and it has features that you lust after.

 

The R7000 continues to be one of Netgear's workhorse routers. It gets features like Circle and Armor but at the expense of removing features that are important to some people.

 

The newer incarnation of the R7000, the R7000P, based on a different chip, is still on sale. Netgear even has the R7000 in stock.

 

So, work out what you want to do and get the kit that can do it.

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 10 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

Thanks Michael, sounds reasonable. Some final questions / validation points though... 

 


@michaelkenward wrote:

@Mats-cz wrote:

When using Orbi together with Nighthawk there was a recommendation to use Orbi for wireless and not have Nighthawk doing any wireless (when acting as router). Not sure if anyone else has similar or different experiences?!

 

That is the usual advice. There are a couple of reasons for this.

 

For a start you don't want too many wifi sources around to interfere with each other and to confuse your wifi clients. And Orbi systems usually come with satellites and "Mesh" technology that provides a smoother handover from source to satellite as you move around with your wifi clients.

Question: do you have the Orbi devices connected by wire to the router or wireless between Orbi? I assume wired should help bandwidth? My plan would be to add another Orbi satellite to cope with the devices and i assume best would be to connect it with cable to the router? Or do you have a different view?

 

I have experimented with turning on and off the router wifi (the R7000 in your case but here an R7800). I saw no adverse effects. But my Orbi is about 20 feet away and on Powerline ethernet. I generally keep the wifi off on the R7800 because I don't need it.
Question: do you use the same SSID as on Orbi or a different one?

Question: do you have the router wifi on or off in your current setup with Orbi attached? If i read it right you only use Orbi wifi?!?

 

 

The Orbi is generally designed to be easier to use, but that can mean less controllable, a feature that upsets some propeller heads who like to mess around under the bonnet, often for no obvious reason.

 


@Mats-cz wrote:

Could a new Nighthawk make a big difference even if i do not use it for wireless?

 


Only if you desperately need a new router and it has features that you lust after.

 

The R7000 continues to be one of Netgear's workhorse routers. It gets features like Circle and Armor but at the expense of removing features that are important to some people.
Question: There is something in the oruter called "Dynamic QoS" which uses a a database for performance but it has not been updated since 2018-06-21. Do you use this function as well? if yes - does it work well or do you use something else / disabled?

 

The newer incarnation of the R7000, the R7000P, based on a different chip, is still on sale. Netgear even has the R7000 in stock.

 

So, work out what you want to do and get the kit that can do it.
Thanks!


 

Message 11 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

There's a lot going on in there. And my attention span is not great.

 

Let's deal with this bit, it is important:

 


@Mats-cz wrote:

 

Question: do you have the Orbi devices connected by wire to the router or wireless between Orbi?

 

 

You can't do a wireless router > Orbi link.

 

The Orbi router has an access point mode, but not a wireless bridge (repeater) mode.

 

Your other questions are down to personal preference and are best answered when you have worked out what you really want to do.

 

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 12 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?


My mistake in phrasing the question. What i meant to ask was - do you have your Orbi's connected through an ethernet cable and thereby they remain connected by ethernet cable between the orbi devices. i assume they can thereby communicate through the Ethernet cable (backbone). I understand the R7000 cannot connect with Orbi devices apart from through ethernet cables. Unable to insert a picture but... from my router (R7000) i have a Cat5 cable connecting to the Orbi Router which is in AP mode. Another cat5 cable goes from the router to the Orbi Satellite AP on 2nd floor. Does this make sense and what you are using as well?.I read a lot on teh Orbi being connected wireless to each other but is that better?!

 

For my other question (perhaps i should try the chat with netgear sales) - can you bring in Orbi Pro as a third device or are they not compatible at all with RBR? There are som every good pricing on Orbi Pro at the moment here...

https://www.dustinhome.se/product/5011041531/orbi-pro-srs60-tri-band-sattelite

 

 

 

And thanks for all help. I think i have most of it figured out now...

@michaelkenward wrote:

There's a lot going on in there. And my attention span is not great.

 

Let's deal with this bit, it is important:

 


@Mats-cz wrote:

 

Question: do you have the Orbi devices connected by wire to the router or wireless between Orbi?

 

 

You can't do a wireless router > Orbi link.

 

The Orbi router has an access point mode, but not a wireless bridge (repeater) mode.

 

Your other questions are down to personal preference and are best answered when you have worked out what you really want to do.

 

 

 


 

 

Message 13 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

Found another thread on comparison outside this community. so, Pro do NOT connect to Orbi "normal" it seems...

https://justclickappliances.com/netgear-orbi-vs-orbi-pro/

 

 

Message 14 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

To sum up this thread for any future useage:

 

You can find best setup in the following links in regards to Orbi:

https://www.tech21century.com/netgear-orbi-questions-and-answers/

https://averagetechblog.com/how-to/netgear-orbi-settings/

 

After review of several sources and chat within this thread, it seems having the router (R7000) as router is the best thing but disable the wifi of the router. Use Orbi as main Wifi-connector!

If you can, then connect Orbi by cable to the router, disable daisy-chain in Orbi RBR50 unless you have 3 satellites or more OR have in a chain situation like RBR - Sat - Sat approach... and if you have them connected by wore / cable to the router you should not need to have daisy chain either...

 

So, above are my findings after a lot of reviews and questioning.

 

Netgear Armor has for me been very useful, covering unlimited devices. The portal is still a bit "crappy" but finctionality remains good. Both Orbi as well as the R7000 can enable Netgear Armor for you.

 

If you want to use teh Nighthawk APP you need to enable and connect to the Nighthawk wifi (i set up a small "admin SSID" that i use now and then but disable it, when in "normal use".

 

Also, please note - my R7000 did NOT find the latest firmware that was released in early April. I had to update manually to close the security flaw. Might be useful to know!!

.

 

 

View solution in original post

Model: R7000|AC1900 Smart WIFI Router, RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 15 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?


@Mats-cz wrote:

To sum up this thread for any future useage:

 

 


This observer, me, cautions against believing that the advice in this Solved message is the one and only way out.

 

It may work for some people but others might like a more conventional approach.

 

In particular, this bit is confusing:

 


@Mats-cz wrote:

 

... it seems having the router (R7000) as router is the best thing but disable the wifi of the router. Use Orbi as main Wifi-connector!

 


This may, or may not, be suggesting that a good approach, depending on your circumstances, is to use the Orbi in Wireless Access Point mode. It is certainly the way to proceed.

 

Using the right label, Wireless Access Point, is important because it tells people where to look in the settings for the device.

 

Whether you turn off the wifi on the router is up to you. It may make no difference here. I have tried it on/off and it does not do much if you have separate SSIDs.

 

As to this bit:

 


@Mats-cz wrote:

If you want to use teh Nighthawk APP you need to enable and connect to the Nighthawk wifi (i set up a small "admin SSID" that i use now and then but disable it, when in "normal use".

 


You don't need to faff around with 'a small "admin SSID"', whatever that means. The Nigthawk app works as is. With an Orbi in AP mode, "Remote Management" does the trick or use a browser wired to the network and aim it at the usual address.

 

I find it much easier to use standard practice than to resort new tricks, but it is always good to have feedback and suggestions.

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 16 of 17
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Re: Nighthawk R7000 + Orbi RBR50 - apps, Armor and a lot of devices... best approach?

Thanks for the feedback Michael and sorry if the summary was not clear enough. As stated in the message:: 

 

"So, above are my findings after a lot of reviews and questioning"

 

So again - the summary is what has worked out for me personally based on my setup which i stated at the start of the thread and after getting advice in this community as well as searching the artciles which i also included as references. Others might find other solutions more suitable so i do not claim this is "the bible". It works for me so far and i am adding another Orbi satellite in order to cope with the no of devices as well as expand my network. I see no real reason to "clutter" my network with a number of different SSID's where i actively need to go in and change so - i disabled those. 

 

if the information can help others - great. If not, well... it seemed to help me so i simply tried to sum it up instead of leaving the thread "hanging" and open.

 

Have a great day!

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