RBR850 Frequent Disconnects Starting March 9th AM EST

[computim]

Corona virus life is making me uptight I guess.  No ill intent just frustration over the AX firmware issue lately.  The lack of transparancy from NG is odd as typically they've been willing to discuss.  Lately.. It's all about covering the issue up and moving away.  

NG says that the issue was due to a ping feature enabled.  LVL 3 engineer tells me its been addressed in the firmware not on the back end.  I really found all that pretty unbelievable as the MD5 hash doesn't lie.  Plus why is a NG cloud service needed to do keep alive or ping for that matter?  So many questions about this product and no answers.  

Tim

[FURRYe38]

I hear ya. Your not alone. 

[migsta]

Orbi AX is in a complete MESS.  With the previous firmware and this new one.  Factory resets done as well but devices are just not sticking and I have outdoor cameras that won't even connect and one indoor Arlo Baby camera that connects but is all pixelated.  Using Nest WiFi or Asus AiMesh works okay with all my devices including the older Orbi AC RBK53.  This RBK853 just does not work regardless of the settings manipulated:

Firmware - current level or previous level(s)

Factory resets

CTS/RTS values from 64 to 2347

Set to Short Preamble from Auto on both channels

Changing channel for 2.4 and 5 networks

Nothing works.  And, most times, the devices reported by Orbi are 40 to 50 whereas Orbi AC, AiMesh and Nest WiFi always show the 90 plus devices in the household.  I don't even understand how Orbi can sell this piece of garbage.  I have a ticket opened with Netgear but I"m not hopeful.  The iOS app is BAD also, sometimes I don't see devices or satellites for few minutes and then they show up but along with always a minimal list of devices.

[FURRYe38]

Since the v10.11 FW files are now avaialble for download, you might download then and to a manual installation on the RBS and RBR then factory reset then setup from scratch. The auto update push sometimes doesn't work right. I always prefer manual updating FW using FW files. I haven't seen any issues since manually loading v10.11. Only item that seems broke is uPnP and ethernet connected RBS when in AP mode with v10.11. 

If nothing seems to help, try going back to v3.1 FW and then block the auto update. Hopefully NG will help you out. Ask about an RMA if needed.

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@migsta wrote:

Orbi AX is in a complete MESS.  With the previous firmware and this new one.  Factory resets done as well but devices are just not sticking and I have outdoor cameras that won't even connect and one indoor Arlo Baby camera that connects but is all pixelated.  Using Nest WiFi or Asus AiMesh works okay with all my devices including the older Orbi AC RBK53.  This RBK853 just does not work regardless of the settings manipulated:

Firmware - current level or previous level(s)

Factory resets

CTS/RTS values from 64 to 2347

Set to Short Preamble from Auto on both channels

Changing channel for 2.4 and 5 networks

Nothing works.  And, most times, the devices reported by Orbi are 40 to 50 whereas Orbi AC, AiMesh and Nest WiFi always show the 90 plus devices in the household.  I don't even understand how Orbi can sell this piece of garbage.  I have a ticket opened with Netgear but I"m not hopeful.  The iOS app is BAD also, sometimes I don't see devices or satellites for few minutes and then they show up but along with always a minimal list of devices.

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[migsta]

Thanks.  I did do a manual update using the latest files and factory reset but NOTHING.  Yah, never used 3.1...always used 3.9 and current firmware.

[FURRYe38]

Give v3.1 a try to see if it bring some stability to your system. Something while you wait on NG support. 

[migsta]

I put it in AP mode and only the router is seen no matter what I did.  The satellites are not online in AP mode so could not really test as I need the satellites to spread the signal.

[FURRYe38]

I know for AP mode wireless RBS connections should work when v10.11 is loaded. It's the wired RBS with LAN switches that doesn't work correctly or report correctly on the RBRs web page. I had v10.11 loaded and router mode worked with ethernet switches and RBS, however when I changed to AP mode, the wired RBS failed to appear correctly on the RBRs web page until I connected them wirelessly. I did see the RBS turn BLUE and seemed to work. Just would not report correctly at connected wired RBS. 

IF you RBS are wired, be sure they are connected to the RBR, not thru a host router. 

[warpdag]

That’s because it tries the wired connection, succeeds for a while, then fails and reverts back to wireless backhaul. One of the reasons why I gave up on orbi ax, I had the exact same issue (my satellite and router were far from each other, wireless backhaul leads to slow performance on the RBS). Just like you, I was using the router in AP mode. It’s a bug they introduced in the last firmware, and their support folks were absolutely clueless when I tried to explain the issue.

[FURRYe38]

I put this in my bug report as well. Though testing wired RBS directly to the RBR with out any ethernet switches worked for me in AP mode. Ya, I had to revert back to router mode to make them work wired with switches in between when I tested this with v10.11. They broke something in v10.11 for AP mode. 

[migsta]

My satellites were wireless and did not get picked up in AP. Just the router was available in AP on the latest firmware.

[Chuck_M]

I was reading earlier posts and product data sheets which claimed the Orbi is not cloud-reliant.  But apparently it is after the last firmware-capade.

I think it would be useful to know what are the dependancies of the NG Cloud and Orbi.

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@computim wrote:

Corona virus life is making me uptight I guess.  No ill intent just frustration over the AX firmware issue lately.  The lack of transparancy from NG is odd as typically they've been willing to discuss.  Lately.. It's all about covering the issue up and moving away.  

NG says that the issue was due to a ping feature enabled.  LVL 3 engineer tells me its been addressed in the firmware not on the back end.  I really found all that pretty unbelievable as the MD5 hash doesn't lie.  Plus why is a NG cloud service needed to do keep alive or ping for that matter?  So many questions about this product and no answers.  

Tim

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[wase471111]

Well, considering they have sold thousands of these setups, and most, (including me) have had zero issues, I cant imagine how anyone can say this is a complete nightmare, or total fail..

Sure, it sux when its your system that has issues, and, you can assume the thousands of people who have no idea what a cat 6 cable is, are now working from home, and messing with their routers, and they call in/tech support all day every day, trying to get someone to help them, hence the slow/delayed response from Netgeat.

This, like every other first world problem will pass, and be fixed, so if you cant figure it out on your own, or somehow get it to work satisfactorally until this work from home/tech support sunami is over, then you have to decide to get something else, or deal with what you have..

Not a netgear shill, as they have pissed me off many times over the years, but keep in mind, the world doesnt revolve around YOU right now, and we all have to deal with the cards we are dealt for right now..

[tigerisak]

Thanks for the help explaining Pingplotter. But when Im trying to ping Google it gives me error on the Orbi side. Please see attached.

[dglsmcd_USMC]

Thanks for the PingPlotter attachment. On the surface, it does appear indeed that the Orbi is the "source" from the data presented but it could be masking the orignal problem which was your internet service provider (your traceroute from the Orbi to clientsportal.com) I believe. I would address this first (traceroute to clientsportal.com) that we identitfied previously and once you have cleared up the issue with your ISP then give another shot to Google. I would be willing to bet that once your ISP has cleaned up his act (you get a clear traceroute without ERR on your PingPlotter to clientsportal.com) you will be happy with the results-no since in trying to chase down all the wihtie rabbits-one issue at a time.

[tigerisak]

It seems to be the Orbi that is actually losing packets..

[dglsmcd_USMC]

Ok, I agree with you on that point but please do a PingPlotter to clientsportal.com (as you did in your first post with PingPlotter) and see if that trend continues-post your result here so everyone can look at it. Thanks.

[FURRYe38]

Please continue this here:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/RBR850-Major-issues-with-packet-loss/m-p/1881505#M2550

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@tigerisak wrote:

It seems to be the Orbi that is actually losing packets..

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[warpdag]

If you’re still struggling and looking for an alternative, I setup my ampl!f! al!en mesh network a couple of days ago, and boy, how refreshing the experience was/is. It took me less than 10 minutes to get it up and running, and I had nothing to fiddle with to make it work out of the box—no obscure settings to tweak, no silly dhcp conflicts, no wired disconnects, no wireless disconnects, no nothing.

Cherry on the cake, they’re slightly cheaper than Orbi! But it’s next to impossible to find them right now, they’re selling like hot cakes.

And no, I have no affiliation with them. What pushed me over the edge is (i) I had to buy a router to mitigate the security flaws I uncovered in Orbi (ii) AP mode is broken on multiple levels, wired backhaul doesn’t work and disconnects are still there (iii) Netgear support has been abysmal.

Just sharing my story for the ones still struggling to get a reliable connection while we’re all stuck at home because of covid19–we’re more dependent on a good connection than ever.

[dglsmcd_USMC]

Glad you are happy with your new Alien Mesh warpdag. For those that are looking for more information (review) of Alien Mesh in comparison with other mesh systems click on the link below:

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/ubiquiti-amplifi-alien-review/ 

[migsta]

Alien

No dedicated backhaul

Router and mesh point kit (lose router, mesh point is useless must work with router it came with)

No 160

No WPA3

No ???

[migsta]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykarcz/2019/12/22/gift-this-not-that-amplifi-alien-vs-netgear-orb...

[warpdag]

- No dedicated backhaul => I use wired backhaul, and it works great with Alien (something netgear broke in the last firmware update). You can also use one of the 5G radios on the Alien to do backhaul, but then you lose a bit of performance, so yes, it’s a bit of a trade off. If you can only do wireless backhaul, Orbi has an edge, but are peaks at 800 Mbps the thing you really need? What about stability? The alien is really close performance wise (about 10% peak performance difference in my tests, and no impact whatsoever on everyday use), but is so much more stable, so it’s a no brainer for me.
- Router and mesh point kit (lose router, mesh point is useless must work with router it came with) => You’re right, that part sucks big time and I absolutely don’t get why, and that’s why I bought only routers (you can convert a router as mesh point, plus it has better resale value down the road). So yeah, in the end Orbi is slightly more cost effective, but I suspect each Alien router will retain much more value down the road.
- No 160 => True, and as stated earlier, the Alien is a tad slower than Orbi, but I’ll take the 10% hit for (i) the amazingly simple setup process (ii) the extreme stability compared to Orbi (iii) the overall peace of mind, I have better things to do than debug Netgear’s unfinished products. Also, Ubiquiti mentioned it’s in their roadmap for the Alien, though in real life, I’m really wondering what difference it really makes. It’s like 20 and 40 MHz back in the early WiFi days, 40 never really delivered much more than 20, MIMO is what really made a difference.
- No WPA3 => True, though researchers just found a bunch of security holes in WPA3 so we need to wait for the next revision to really get an edge security wise over WPA2. In the meantime, Ubiquiti committed to provide a WPA3 compatible firmware update, and I trust them a lot more than netgear when it comes to delivering at this point. Side note, don’t let WPA3 support give you a false sense of security, Orbi is extremely unsecure on the WAN side, and you’re much more likely to be hacked from that side of the router, unless your neighbors (i) hate you (ii) buy a ton of compute to crack your WPA2. Also, what about that mysterious “cloud connection“ netgear mentioned but refused to disclose when pressed for details? Remember, that’s the reason why the router broke in the first place, not the firmware.

Again, to each his own, I am not trying to convince people to switch, I’m merely giving people options. If you like your Orbi, then keep it.

For the record, I liked the previous Orbi generation and used it for years with no problems whatsoever, but the new gen is not there and won’t be for a while, based on my 4+ months experience. The hardware seems stellar, so kudos to the netgear hardware team for their work, but their software team absolutely dropped the ball in my opinion.

[migsta]

Yes, better a stable WiFi than this instability with Orbi AX. Mine is not even working with respect to some devices not connecting at all (cameras) and a lot of devices disconnecting. So, I am looking for alternatives. It tried Zen WiFi XT8 but AiMesh is horrible at getting devices to the strongest node. I tried Velop Mx but found speeds to be sometimes not that great. When it works, it’s great and fast but then it just slows down. I am using Nest WiFi now until Netgear replaces my RBR50 assuming this is my issues with it? Nest WiFi is stable, speeds are just ok and it’s a boring system butt everything works on it.

[wase471111]

You know, I'm no mod, but its really NOT COOL to do a review of a competitors model on someone else's  website..

Shame you had issues with your system, but coming here and continually bashing one you got rid of is just weird..

Good Luck with Amplify