Installing Apps/Devices that cannot connect on 5g when trying to use Orbi and Pixel Phones
Scenario:
1. Orbi Mesh network installed where we cannot manually differentiate (i.e., name SSID separately our 2g and 5g) network bands because the mesh supposedly handles this in the background.
2. Google Pixel Phones where you cannot switch off of 5g networks if one is around manually either because it ALSO does this for you wanting to find the best/fastest network.
3. The issue: Now you are trying to install an app/device that can ONLY "see" a 2g network band. Think, Amazon Alexas, Ring doorbells, and the like. So, your pixel can't find their "temporary" network because, of course, it's on your 5g band. You can't go into the Orbi and set anything up or disable the 5g band to force it to connect to 2g because, of course, that ability is also removed from you.
4. So, what to do? This is the issue many people are having I'm seeing. I'm about to actually scrap this network and go back to a "normal" router and hope that it covers my house. One that allows me to "see" separate bands and, therefore, connect apps that can only "see" 2g. Because I'm not getting rid of Pixel and Google WiFi just yet. Saves me too much money each month.
What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings
Try disabling the following and see: Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).
You can turn down the WiFi signal on either radio. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings. This would help steer devices to either frequency.
You can disable each frequency SSID Broadcast if needed:
1. Orbi Mesh network installed where we cannot manually differentiate (i.e., name SSID separately our 2g and 5g) network bands because the mesh supposedly handles this in the background.
2. Google Pixel Phones where you cannot switch off of 5g networks if one is around manually either because it ALSO does this for you wanting to find the best/fastest network.
3. The issue: Now you are trying to install an app/device that can ONLY "see" a 2g network band. Think, Amazon Alexas, Ring doorbells, and the like. So, your pixel can't find their "temporary" network because, of course, it's on your 5g band. You can't go into the Orbi and set anything up or disable the 5g band to force it to connect to 2g because, of course, that ability is also removed from you.
4. So, what to do? This is the issue many people are having I'm seeing. I'm about to actually scrap this network and go back to a "normal" router and hope that it covers my house. One that allows me to "see" separate bands and, therefore, connect apps that can only "see" 2g. Because I'm not getting rid of Pixel and Google WiFi just yet. Saves me too much money each month.
Anyone found a way around this yet?
There are a number of posts specifically about Ring Doorbells. What has worked for me with a number of devices that work only on 2.4G (Sonos One, variety of smart plugs) is this:
First, "give it a try". The majority of these devices get configured by broadcasting their own WiFi access point with an obvious name (SSID). The app or the user opens the smartphone WiFi manager and this goofy access point is connected to. Enter the Orbi WiFi SSID/password into the app. App sends them to the device. Device connects. Done.
Second, "shut off 5G broadcast". Unfortunately, some apps were written ineptly and simply won't work if the smartphone is connected to a 5G network. Go to the Orbi web interface, the Advanced Tab, Advanced Setup, Wireless Settings and uncheck the box "Enable SSID Broadcast " on the 5G network. On the smartphone wireless settings, "forget" the Orbi SSID. Then, in the settings, search for a WiFi network, "find" the Orbi, enter the password and connect. Check on the Orbi "Attached Devices" that the phone is connected at 2.4G (The Orbi is slow to update device connections. I concluded "it didn't work!", when I simply had not waited for the Orbi to update the display.) Open the device setup app. Do the setup. When the device is working, go back and check the box "Enable SSID Broadcast" for 5G.
These two steps have worked reliably for me (and a lot of other people). Most of the time, ignoring the warnings "MUST HAVE 2.4G" and clicking "Continue" just works.
If there is a specific device which cannot be connected to Orbi, please describe it.
Re: Installing Apps/Devices that cannot connect on 5g when trying to use Orbi and Pixel Phones
<<First, "give it a try". The majority of these devices get configured by broadcasting their own WiFi access point with an obvious name (SSID). The app or the user opens the smartphone WiFi manager and this goofy access point is connected to. Enter the Orbi WiFi SSID/password into the app. App sends them to the device. Device connects. Done.>>
Yes, this is often the case. The trouble is, it will not stay connect to this "device specific" WiFi access point. If I try to give it my Orbi WiFi SSID/password, it tells me the password is incorrect (even though I know I have not changed it).
I have not tried your second solution, however. I will try that when I get home. I'm on work travel until tomorrow and will do so (disabling the 5 to force everyone to 2).
The strange thing to me is some devices seemingly of the same "genre" will connect and some will not; case in point, some Amazon echos. Perhaps it is a generation thing.
Yes, this is often the case. The trouble is, it will not stay connect to this "device specific" WiFi access point. If I try to give it my Orbi WiFi SSID/password, it tells me the password is incorrect (even though I know I have not changed it).
I have not tried your second solution, however. I will try that when I get home. I'm on work travel until tomorrow and will do so (disabling the 5 to force everyone to 2). I should clarify. Telling Orbi to stop broadcasting SSID will not affect any device that is connected at 5G. That is why the phone has to be told specifically to "forget" the Orbi SSID and then search again for WiFi. The phone will connect to the only access point that is broadcasting SSID: the 2.4G one. Once the Orbi begins broadcasting SSID on 5G again, the phone will switch when it decides the 5G connection is better.
The strange thing to me is some devices seemingly of the same "genre" will connect and some will not; case in point, some Amazon echos. Perhaps it is a generation thing. It would be helpful to identify specific devices which are difficult to connect. If it meets my criterion (under $25), I usually purchase one to see what happens on my Orbi. Otherwise, some people who watch the forum have experience with many (many) devices.
I have not tried your second solution, however. I will try that when I get home. I'm on work travel until tomorrow and will do so (disabling the 5 to force everyone to 2).
This tactic, disabling the broadcast of the 5 GHz SSID, seems to work in most cases. Indeed, I can't recall any instances where it failed. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention.
It is surprising how many people insist that it is impossible to set up IoT gadgets without separating 2.4 GHz and 5 Ghz. They bang on without even bothering to try this well known strategy for getting things to work.
So they turn up here with complicated scenarios that have nothing to do with the real world. The pity is that Netgear has failed to come up with a KnowledgeBase article that explains what to do.
Oh, and if anyone does encounter a reluctant device, tell the people who made the IoT device that they need to get their act together: also tell people here so that @plemans can buy some new toys. Netgear is not the only maker of Mesh stuff and Orbis are not the only Netgear devices that combine SSIDs.
Finally, when trying anew device, search this community for it. You might be surprised to learn that it has already cropped up here, along with advice on how to get it to work.
Re: Installing Apps/Devices that cannot connect on 5g when trying to use Orbi and Pixel Phones
I can confirm the disabling of the 5G SSID broadcast is still working on v2.5.1.8. I watched a wifi analyzer as I disabled it and the SSID name and signal dropped then after a few seconds the signal came back, however the SSID was not displayed over the signal. Once I re-enabled the 5G SSID name broadcast, the signal disappeared then came back and also the SSID Name was displayed over the signal.
4. So, what to do? This is the issue many people are having I'm seeing. I'm about to actually scrap this network and go back to a "normal" router and hope that it covers my house. One that allows me to "see" separate bands and, therefore, connect apps that can only "see" 2g. Because I'm not getting rid of Pixel and Google WiFi just yet. Saves me too much money each month.
Before following the great advise by @CrimpOn (appreciated!!): Head out and complain to the makers of this junk on all channels requesting a workable solution not requiring a dedicated 2.4 GHz connection for the set-up. It's their job to provide their customer with a workable solution - without ripping reliable Mesh system, being a proprietary Orbi or a Wi-Fi EasyMesh standards compliant Nighthawk Mesh into pieces.
This is neither a Netgear (Orbi, Orbi Pro, Nightawk Mesh, Netgear Mesh Extender, Insight wireless*), nor a Google issue, nor a Pixel phone problem, nor an ISP provided Wi-Fi router problem - it's an IoT and App junk issue only! Only they can and must change thier crap designs.
Dropping e.g. the Pixel in favour of any other mobile will not give you the option to disable the 5 GHz band either. This is because of operating 2.4 and 5 GHz networks concurrently with the very same SSIDs and security for connecting into that very same layer 2 and layer three network is the de-facto and industry standard today.
*On Netgear Insight, it's a question of a few clicks to create an additional SSID serving both or just one band only, for connecting to the same LAN, or to a dedicated VLAN. With an Insight router, creating a dedicated VLAN and subnet for the IoT is a piece of cake, too.
<<First, "give it a try". The majority of these devices get configured by broadcasting their own WiFi access point with an obvious name (SSID). The app or the user opens the smartphone WiFi manager and this goofy access point is connected to. Enter the Orbi WiFi SSID/password into the app. App sends them to the device. Device connects. Done.>>
Yes, this is often the case. The trouble is, it will not stay connect to this "device specific" WiFi access point. If I try to give it my Orbi WiFi SSID/password, it tells me the password is incorrect (even though I know I have not changed it).
That's not the process @CrimpOn has described above. The temporary AP is done on the IoT (sometimes it's also a Bluetooth connection), the SSID is taken from the or selected from a list, the security key is typed in or again taken from the mobile wireless config - everything is pushed to the IoT which is supposed to connect to that network. Of course, the IoT AP is no longer active after that (except it does come back if it can't connect to the "real" wireless network. Here again, if the IoJ stuff does not associate with the access point, it's unlikely a problem with a 802.11n/802.11ac system like these Orbi.
There can be some specific interoperability issues when it comes to the Wi-Fi 6 system like the Orbi AX because of some added protocol features - however the majority of these proofed to be again WiFi client issues.
The worst IoT stuff are these "designs" which will only connect to a certain SSID (or ESSID) if the BSSID (the radio MAC) is the same - there all tricks won't help much.
Before following the great advise by @CrimpOn (appreciated!!): Head out and complain to the makers of this junk on all channels requesting a workable solution not requiring a dedicated 2.4 GHz connection for the set-up. It's their job to provide their customer with a workable solution - without ripping reliable Mesh system, being a proprietary Orbi or a Wi-Fi EasyMesh standards compliant Nighthawk Mesh into pieces.
Please everyone who lands here, follow this suggestion. The solution really is in the hands of the people who devised this junk and wrote sloppy set up systems.
It might help if there was a list somewhere of things that do not work with Mesh (single SSID) 2.4/5 GHz systems and that do not work with the standard "hide the 5 GHz SSID" strategy.
Along with @CrimpOn's growing pile of IoT devices, such a list could help to shame some of the failures.
Re: Installing Apps/Devices that cannot connect on 5g when trying to use Orbi and Pixel Phones
So, first off, I'm back from travel and came straight to the office to try CrimpOn's solution since, this was the fist time after scouring the Web I saw an actual solution I could try (note: this is after contacting both Netgear PAID support and Amazon's support departments, mind you, as well as searching the Web, before I stumbled across some sort of post here that led me to try posting/searching here).
Let me say, KUDOS. It worked. Mostly. It got the smart plugs I was trying to get installed right off the bat. That pesky Amazon Echo that just will not see my network no matter what, well, whatever..maybe it's just an old one (it is actually a first generation). So, I'm just scrapping that damn thing. Anyway, thank you very much.
I don't disagree with the sentiment that it's the App developers that are the issue. Because it is quite the pain in the butt to have to do this each time I will say. However, I will also say, the fact that I contacted Netgear Support first who had no clue and the fact that there is no Knowlege Gear article (I'm a tech writer and know this should be one) is an issue as well.
Finally - I want to address Michael's comments:
<<It is surprising how many people insist that it is impossible to set up IoT gadgets without separating 2.4 GHz and 5 Ghz. They bang on without even bothering to try this well known strategy for getting things to work.>>
Well known to whom? Networking gurus such as yourself? I know just enough to get into the Admin section and that's it. And that's only because I'm "sort of" in the tech world. The fact that I called Netgear support and THEY didn't know makes this statement suspect.
So they turn up here with complicated scenarios that have nothing to do with the real world. The pity is that Netgear has failed to come up with a KnowledgeBase article that explains what to do.
<< Oh, and if anyone does encounter a reluctant device, tell the people who made the IoT device that they need to get their act together: also tell people here so that@plemanscan buy some new toys. Netgear is not the only maker of Mesh stuff and Orbis are not the only Netgear devices that combine SSIDs. >>
Can't disagree here.
<<Finally, when trying anew device, search this community for it. You might be surprised to learn that it has already cropped up here, along with advice on how to get it to work.>>
First thing I did. As well as the Web before here. However, unless the Subject line/text is very specific it is often hard to find. And people do not know what is wrong. Case in point: When I first started researching this subject, it was because I was being told my network password was incorrect even though I knew I had not changed it. Which, in the end, led me here but had nothing to do with the issue (Amazon Support told me my network was open and then never got back to me). Even though I've been a bit more specific in my Subject line, I'm not sure it will help. Because I'm not sure people know what they are actually looking for at first.
That pesky Amazon Echo that just will not see my network no matter what, well, whatever..maybe it's just an old one (it is actually a first generation). So, I'm just scrapping that damn thing.
Don't scrap it - complain to Amazon!
For other failures, it's typically crappy IoJ and App design: The mobile device with the App does connect to the very same L2 and L3 network - any kind of discovery (broadcast, known multicast like UPnP SSDP or Bonjour, proprietary multicast protocols*, ...) - does work fully transparent between any AP radio band and the network.
*in some managed network environments, unknown (non-registered) multicast might be blocked - so using these is another no-go.
Re: Installing Apps/Devices that cannot connect on 5g when trying to use Orbi and Pixel Phones
I have an Amazon Echo Dot (2nd generation) and it had no issues configuring on the Orbi network. So perhaps the issue you are reporting is only for the first generation Amazon Echo. Amazon has been selling the 3rd generation of the Echo for over a year. They may no longer support updates for the 1st generation.
I also have a Pixel 3 smartphone and likewise use Google Fi. I love their service! As stated by others, this is not an issue with your smartphone or cell phone provider.
Re: Installing Apps/Devices that cannot connect on 5g when trying to use Orbi and Pixel Phones
"I don't disagree with the sentiment that it's the App developers that are the issue. Because it is quite the pain in the butt to have to do this each time I will say."
Your disagreement would be misplaced. You must undertand that these "IoT Mfrs" put out these 2.4Ghz only supporting devices and then tie them up with there 2.4Ghz only suporing setup and management software apps that get in installed on "dual band" supporting devices. Both phones and pads of today are dual band supporting. 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. These two frequencys are on the SAME WLAN side network. Thus there is a connection with either frequency to the same network. It's these "IoT Mfrs" who fail to realized or possible just don't want to invest more money in development in there "setup software application" that gets installed on dual band devices that "there" application could and should work on a dual band supporting device regardless of which frequency it's connected too. If the IoT device can see the 2.4Ghz SSID while the phone or pad is on the 5Ghz SSID, both frequencies being connected to the SAME WLAN network, then why should there "setup application" be so limiting and causing "quite the pain in the butt" experiences.
You'd think maybe some IoT Mfrs would look into this more and make the change with there application. It shouldn't be that hard. It's there application that is causing this problem. Has nothing to do with NG or Smart Connect MESH systems!
FYI, my 1st gen DOT has never had a problem connecting to either Orbi AC RBK50 or Orbi AX RBK853. Though I have always used the same SSID name and PW when migrating or installing new routers.
So, first off, I'm back from travel and came straight to the office to try CrimpOn's solution since, this was the fist time after scouring the Web I saw an actual solution I could try (note: this is after contacting both Netgear PAID support and Amazon's support departments, mind you, as well as searching the Web, before I stumbled across some sort of post here that led me to try posting/searching here).
Let me say, KUDOS. It worked. Mostly. It got the smart plugs I was trying to get installed right off the bat. That pesky Amazon Echo that just will not see my network no matter what, well, whatever..maybe it's just an old one (it is actually a first generation). So, I'm just scrapping that damn thing. Anyway, thank you very much.
I don't disagree with the sentiment that it's the App developers that are the issue. Because it is quite the pain in the butt to have to do this each time I will say. However, I will also say, the fact that I contacted Netgear Support first who had no clue and the fact that there is no Knowlege Gear article (I'm a tech writer and know this should be one) is an issue as well.
Finally - I want to address Michael's comments:
<<It is surprising how many people insist that it is impossible to set up IoT gadgets without separating 2.4 GHz and 5 Ghz. They bang on without even bothering to try this well known strategy for getting things to work.>>
Well known to whom? Networking gurus such as yourself? I know just enough to get into the Admin section and that's it. And that's only because I'm "sort of" in the tech world. The fact that I called Netgear support and THEY didn't know makes this statement suspect.
So they turn up here with complicated scenarios that have nothing to do with the real world. The pity is that Netgear has failed to come up with a KnowledgeBase article that explains what to do.
<< Oh, and if anyone does encounter a reluctant device, tell the people who made the IoT device that they need to get their act together: also tell people here so that@plemanscan buy some new toys. Netgear is not the only maker of Mesh stuff and Orbis are not the only Netgear devices that combine SSIDs. >>
Can't disagree here.
<<Finally, when trying anew device, search this community for it. You might be surprised to learn that it has already cropped up here, along with advice on how to get it to work.>>
First thing I did. As well as the Web before here. However, unless the Subject line/text is very specific it is often hard to find. And people do not know what is wrong. Case in point: When I first started researching this subject, it was because I was being told my network password was incorrect even though I knew I had not changed it. Which, in the end, led me here but had nothing to do with the issue (Amazon Support told me my network was open and then never got back to me). Even though I've been a bit more specific in my Subject line, I'm not sure it will help. Because I'm not sure people know what they are actually looking for at first.
<<It is surprising how many people insist that it is impossible to set up IoT gadgets without separating 2.4 GHz and 5 Ghz. They bang on without even bothering to try this well known strategy for getting things to work.>>
Well known to whom? Networking gurus such as yourself? I know just enough to get into the Admin section and that's it. And that's only because I'm "sort of" in the tech world. The fact that I called Netgear support and THEY didn't know makes this statement suspect.
Anyone who turns up here and asks for help, or who bothers to search the archives for the devices they want to connect.
Believe me, there have been dozens of discussions of this issue over recent months. I have lost count of the number of times people have been told "turn off the 5Ghz SSID" only to be amazed that it works.
Sadly, these messages do get muddled up with contributions from people who insist that the only answer is for users to have the ability to break Orbi's underlying technology and run with separate SSIDs. Nonsense.
By the way, I am no networking guru, just a long-time user from dial-up days, acoustic couplers eve, who has earned a living writing about technology that makes this stuff look trivial.
However, I will also say, the fact that I contacted Netgear Support first who had no clue and the fact that there is no Knowlege Gear article (I'm a tech writer and know this should be one) is an issue as well.
Sadly, this seems to be a common issue. Many of Netgear's support people seem to know less than some of the regulars here.
You are not the first person to suggest writing a KnowledgeBase article. See above
