I have Centurylink Fiber 1Gig up and 1 Gig down. In order to get rid of Centurylink's Modem/Router combo I had to utilize PPPOE and VLAN Tagging. I setup the VLAN Tagging on my TP Link Smart Switch (tl-sg108e) and plugged that straight into the ONT. I used Port 1 as the Tagged VLAN ID 201 and port 2 as the untagged port. I then applied PVID for port 1 and 2 for type 201.
I successfully got this working with port 1 plugged into the ONT and port 2 plugged into the Orbi Router WAN (Yellow) port. I have the Orbi Satellite plugged into port 3 on the switch but it's not recognizing the Ethernet Backhaul. Can Ethernet Backhaul work if it is plugged into the WAN port when using a switch? Is there any kind of bridging configuration on the switch that I would need to do in order for the Satellite to recognize the backhaul?
I have two responses. First about your VLAN/network setup.
If I understand correctly you have a managed switch with at least:
Port 1: Untagged for VLAN201
Port 2: Untagged for VLAN201
Meaning, ports 1 and 2 are on the same VLAN if no 802.1q tags are included. They act as a 2 port switch.
Now, you said you pugged your ONT (I assume the CenturyLink router/modem combo) into Port 1, and Port 2 into the Orbi WAN. On a separate broadcast domain (say, the default VLAN), you want to connect up all the Orbi's.
If I follow all that correctly then answer to your question is: Absolutely, that should work as long as you're not using the Orbi's in AP mode (something else is doing DHCP + NAT).
If you're using the Orbi's in AP mode, then things are a little different. In that case, you would put your router/DHCP device on the same VLAN as all the Orbi devices.
My second response is about getting the Orbi's to recognize the wired backhaul... The short answer there is - "don't have high expectations". While netgear techinically supports a wired backhaul, the feature was released half-baked. The satellites attempt to auto-detect if they have access to the broadcast domain over ethernet, but it's not reliable. And, there's now way to tell a satellite to only use the wired backhaul.
From your other post, it seems you've around found out that many other users are running into these issues.
Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Thank you for your response. Yes, I have found that the ethernet backhaul does not work 100% as others have found as well. My satellite is plugged into port 3 which is outside the VLAN and is an untagged port. The satalite doesn't recognize the ethernet backhaul and defaults to the wireless backhaul. This is to assume that ethernet backhaul can work over the WAN port on the Orbi Router.
Wonder if I should put port 3 into the same VLAN and PVID that both 1 and 2 are on?
Thank you for your response. Yes, I have found that the ethernet backhaul does not work 100% as others have found as well. My satellite is plugged into port 3 which is outside the VLAN and is an untagged port. The satalite doesn't recognize the ethernet backhaul and defaults to the wireless backhaul. This is to assume that ethernet backhaul can work over the WAN port on the Orbi Router.
Wonder if I should put port 3 into the same VLAN and PVID that both 1 and 2 are on?
The Orbi will only work with an ethernet backhaul over the WAN port if you're in AP (access point) mode, which is not the default. The default is "routed" mode (where the Orbi hands out DHCP addresses and does NAT for your devices). From your answers, I think you're using "routed" mode.
This is important for your situation because in routed mode, the broadcast domains of the WAN port and the remaining ports are necessarily different. You could think of it like this: the "untagged" VLAN for the WAN port is a different VLAN than the "untagged" VLANs for the remaining ports.
Now, you need each Orbi sattelite that you want to use with a wired backhaul to be connected to the router on the same broadcast domain (VLAN). In routed mode, here's one way would accomplish this in your setup.
On the switch:
Port 1: Untagged for VLAN 201, your modem
Port 2: Untagged for VLAN 201, your Orbi Router's WAN port
Port 3: Untagged for VLAN 1, A non-WAN port on your Orbi router
Port 4: Untagged for VLAN 1, One of your Orbi Sattelites
Port 5: Untagged for VLAN 1, A different Orbi Sattelite
Notice, this has your Orbi router plugged into the switch twice, and each port it is plugged into has a different untagged VLAN. This is correct for "routed mode".
If you're using "Access Point" mode, then the answer is different. Let me know and I'll give you an example of what you would do for that instead.
Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Thank you for the detailed response. I really appreciate the help! Your explanation makes perfect sense.
Well... Looks like I won't be able to do this because my ONT is in the basement and is connected to my switch. I have one cat5 going upstairs in the family room (Orbi Router - Router Mode) and another cat 5 going in a upstairs bedroom (Orbi Satellite) on the oposite side of the house. I would need two cat5's in order to do what you described going up to the family room. I could bring the Orbi Router in the basement but I minimze the coverage in the family room.
My main purpose here was to use the TP Link switch to do the VLAN tagging and the Orbi to do the PPPOE login to avoid the Centurylink Modem/Router (c3000z). Guess I could hook this up as the router and put my Orbi's in AP Mode. Could you explain how to do this? Would I simply just hook up both the Orbi's up to the c3000z's ports and it would work? - Take the switch out all together.
Thank you for the detailed response. I really appreciate the help! Your explanation makes perfect sense.
Well... Looks like I won't be able to do this because my ONT is in the basement and is connected to my switch. I have one cat5 going upstairs in the family room (Orbi Router - Router Mode) and another cat 5 going in a upstairs bedroom (Orbi Satellite) on the oposite side of the house. I would need two cat5's in order to do what you described going up to the family room. I could bring the Orbi Router in the basement but I minimze the coverage in the family room.
My main purpose here was to use the TP Link switch to do the VLAN tagging and the Orbi to do the PPPOE login to avoid the Centurylink Modem/Router (c3000z). Guess I could hook this up as the router and put my Orbi's in AP Mode. Could you explain how to do this? Would I simply just hook up both the Orbi's up to the c3000z's ports and it would work? - Take the switch out all together.
Don't change AP vs routed mode over this! You don't need 2 cat 5 cable runs! Just because the Orbi's don't propertly support VLANs, doesn't mean you're out of the game. You just need two more steps.
Step 1: Put a managed switch upstairs near where your router is
This can be your basement switch, if it is small and quiet. If not, just buy a cheap 4 port managed switch (faneless, preferrably). They are about $65 if you get a new one.
Step 2: Setup the new switch like mentioned earlier
The modem gets plugged into the cable line that runs upstairs and goes into Port 1 on the switch. The rest remains the same as my note earlier.
The only down side is that you'll have to organize 4 cables so it looks nice. If you get a switch with flashing lights, maybe you'll have to carefully put electrical tape over the LEDs too. But, all in all, it'll be clean.
Now, say you really don't want to put a managed switch near the Orbi router. AP mode is possible with a single cable, but that means something else will need to provide routing/DCHP/NAT services. And, whatever it is, will need to be in your basement. If you don't want to use the CenturyLink modem's built in features, I would suggest getting a cheap pfSense box. For reference, that's what I use.
Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
I aplogize but I am a little confused - in order to run data to the cat5 cable to the bedroom upstairs (Orbi Satalite) I have to go back down into the basement. The basement is where all the cat5 cables flow.
So I only have 1 cat5 going down in the basement from the family room and 1 cat5 from the upstairs bedroom down to the basement. So I do need a switch in the basement in order to connect to the Orbi Satalite. Sorry for the confusion. So basically port 4 on the switch in your steps would only work if the switch was in the basement.
So unless we can get this to work with two switches and do some special routing/bridging then we would need to go the AP Mode route.
I aplogize but I am a little confused - in order to run data to the cat5 cable to the bedroom upstairs (Orbi Satalite) I have to go back down into the basement. The basement is where all the cat5 cables flow.
So I only have 1 cat5 going down in the basement from the family room and 1 cat5 from the upstairs bedroom down to the basement. So I do need a switch in the basement in order to connect to the Orbi Satalite. Sorry for the confusion. So basically port 4 on the switch in your steps would only work if the switch was in the basement.
So unless we can get this to work with two switches and do some special routing/bridging then we would need to go the AP Mode route.
Ah, I didn't realize you had all the cables joining in the basement. I was slow on that one.
Anyway, using any two managed switches will make short work of this situation. I'll use a port by port example again, still expecting "routed" mode.
Basement switch:
Port 1: Untagged VLAN 201, modem
Port 2: Marked as a trunk port, goes to mainfloor swtich
Port 3: Untagged VLAN 1, goes to upstairs sattelite
Mainfloor switch:
Port 1: Marked as a trunk port, goes to basement switch
Port 2: Untagged VLAN 201, goes to Orbi Router WAN port
Port 3: Untagged VLAN 1, goes to Orbi Router non-WAN port
Personally, I would do this. The reason is that a small managed switch is $60-$80, and a proper router is $150-$400.
However, just for completness, if you went with a router instead, you would typically do the following:
Modem gets plugged into router WAN port
Router LAN port goes into switch
All switch ports on the same VLAN, Orbi's just plug into the switch
The Orbi's get swapped to AP mode.
This is much simplier from a switching standpoint since most routers have multiple ports and you don't need to bother with VLANs. Instead, you move the cost/complexity to the router, which will peform PPPoE and whatever else you want.
Thank you for the detailed response. I really appreciate the help! Your explanation makes perfect sense.
Well... Looks like I won't be able to do this because my ONT is in the basement and is connected to my switch. I have one cat5 going upstairs in the family room (Orbi Router - Router Mode) and another cat 5 going in a upstairs bedroom (Orbi Satellite) on the oposite side of the house. I would need two cat5's in order to do what you described going up to the family room. I could bring the Orbi Router in the basement but I minimze the coverage in the family room.
My main purpose here was to use the TP Link switch to do the VLAN tagging and the Orbi to do the PPPOE login to avoid the Centurylink Modem/Router (c3000z). Guess I could hook this up as the router and put my Orbi's in AP Mode. Could you explain how to do this? Would I simply just hook up both the Orbi's up to the c3000z's ports and it would work? - Take the switch out all together.
Don't change AP vs routed mode over this! You don't need 2 cat 5 cable runs! Just because the Orbi's don't propertly support VLANs, doesn't mean you're out of the game. You just need two more steps.
Step 1: Put a managed switch upstairs near where your router is
This can be your basement switch, if it is small and quiet. If not, just buy a cheap 4 port managed switch (faneless, preferrably). They are about $65 if you get a new one.
Step 2: Setup the new switch like mentioned earlier
The modem gets plugged into the cable line that runs upstairs and goes into Port 1 on the switch. The rest remains the same as my note earlier.
The only down side is that you'll have to organize 4 cables so it looks nice. If you get a switch with flashing lights, maybe you'll have to carefully put electrical tape over the LEDs too. But, all in all, it'll be clean.
Now, say you really don't want to put a managed switch near the Orbi router. AP mode is possible with a single cable, but that means something else will need to provide routing/DCHP/NAT services. And, whatever it is, will need to be in your basement. If you don't want to use the CenturyLink modem's built in features, I would suggest getting a cheap pfSense box. For reference, that's what I use.
What happend to your post about trunking? It disappeared?
@t_k A update on last night. I was able to get your switch suggestion working properly. I did some test though... When setting the Orbi to do the PPPOE and the Switch to handle the VLAN tagging I notice the speed seems to be some what inconsistent. Before I set this all up I tested the Orbi to run in AP Mode just for the heck of it and used the Centurylink c3000z Modem/Router as the router (wireless turned off). I got much better and more consistant speeds (wireless and wired). I have read that PPPOE and VLAN tagging can somewhat cause some stress on the router and thus bottlenecking the speed.
I have also read about your pfsense idea and I actually would possibly prefer that... But until then I think I might just do the AP Mode with the centurylink router. I appreciate the time you are taking to help me out. Could you give me the best senario to do for AP Mode with Ethernet Backhaul?
@DScone I'm glad you got the setup working, at least!
Regarding your inconsistent speeds on PPPoE, I can't be of too much help there because I haven't had to use that feature of the Orbi. But, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Orbi's PPPoE implementation was poorly tested and poor performing.
I should try to steer you away from trying to troubleshoot VLANs as a source of the slow down though.VLANs and VLAN tagging is has near-0 overhead. In a small nome network, it would be astonishing if it was even detectable. 802.11q is designed to be super lightweight. I mainly bring this up so you don't try to chase that as a problem.
As for pfSense, it's great - though it may provide more features than you need. For us, we use the VPN client/server features, traffic shaping, and VLAN support of pfSense (in additional to the regular stuff). If you don't have any of those needs, it may be a little bit of overkill. Though, once you own a pfSense box, you probabaly won't go back :-).
Anyway, adding a pfSense box into the mix and putting it all together, here's what I would say your cleanest option is:
1. CenturyLink Modem -> WAN port of pfSense box (typically called em0)
2. LAN port of pfSense box (typically called em1) -> Basement switch, untagged for default VLAN
3. WAN port of Orbi router -> Basement switch, untagged for default VLAN (basically, the wall jack)
4. Any port of Orbi sattelite -> Basement switch, untagged for default VLAN (again, just the wall jac)
In this scenario you don't need VLANs setup on your switch in the basement and you don't need a second switch.
However, I really should bring up an important alternative. If you're going to go through the effort and cost of setting up a pfSense box and using a wired backhaul, then you'll probably be much happier with a Ubuqity Unifi setup. The Orbi's wired backhaul is so unreliable right now that it's maddening. Maybe they'll fix it later, but netgear fixed significant stability issues for over 8 months, so I wouldn't hold my breath. I would just see it being really frustarting to get the rest of your network setup and well designed only to still deal with unstable connectivity.
Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
