Re: Wired back haul better?

Shimmyhill · ‎2018-09-30

I have a Orbi RBR40 setup that replaced a Nighthawk router a while back, the WiFi is much better across our bungalow but we have been getting dropouts and I think it’s the satellite dropping - should I wire them together or are there reasons for not doing this?

I will start with the simple question but can give more details about my current configuration if needed!?

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-09-30

What FW is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the IP modem the Orbi is connected too?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ethernet switch if one is in the configuration.
What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?
Try disabling the following and see:
MIMO, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

Yes wired backhaul is good and works well;..

For wired back haul:
Set up IP address reservations for each satellite and devices on the router as you add them to the router. The satellites need to be set up via wireless first. Then connect 1 satellite at a time to the ethernet LAN cable. Wait 5 minutes and the top led on the satellite should turn on BLUE. Set up an IP address reservation for the 1st satellite. Continue to do the same thing for the 2nd satellite. Then follow up with your devices.

Shimmyhill · ‎2018-10-15

Sorry for the late reply, death in the family made this a low priority issue!

What FW is currently loaded?

2.2.1.210

What is the Mfr and model# of the IP modem the Orbi is connected too?

Virgin media superhub 2

What is the Mfr and model# of the ethernet switch if one is in the configuration.

Netgear GS295-100UKS 5 Port switch.

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?

Not very big, 3 bed bungalow but no idea on square footage, will look for sales sheet!

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

I would say 25 - 30 foot

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.

Auto and 36

Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Not able to check, have an app on laptop but nothing on iPad and the laptop isn’t working at the mo 😞

I have since I posted this (today infact) hard wired the satellite to base Orbi as I have been getting the familiar drop out between the satellite and base orbi - seeing the orange and blue glow too often!

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-10-15

You might set the satellite to a bit more than 30 feet. Could be causing some problems, even wired back haul.

Please confirm the model # of the swtich being used. Doesn't seem to come up in searches.

How was the update applied? Auto update or manually installed?

If you updated to recent FW v.210, try enabling Daisy Chain. Some have mentioned that this seems to be working in reverse order, enabling means disabled actually. Hoping NG support can have a look at this. So try this out as well.
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Firmware-2-2-1-210-and-connection-problems-Skybell/m-p/1649275...

Shimmyhill · ‎2018-10-15

I will measure, pretty sure it’s more than 30’ now I think about it

Switch is this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00AYRZYG4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

FW is set to auto update so I assume that way!

Hopefukky ove added a map a map of my setup...

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-10-15

First try putting a check mark in Daisy Chain, save settings and reboot the router and satellite and see how it goes.

Hmmm not sure about ethernet thru two Sono's devices. Anything could be happening here...

I would try to connect the satellite more directly to the router or thru the ethernet switch if you see problems with the satellite...

Shimmyhill · ‎2018-10-15

I’ve only had problems with the wireless backhaul causing drop outs, I’m hoping going wired will sort that!

The Sonos connections are fine, just a slow hub - I could probably not use them now tbh as the setup was without the switch for a while on older routers with more ports!

What does the daisy chain option supposedly do when working?

ekhalil · ‎2018-10-15

@Shimmyhill wrote:

The Sonos connections are fine, just a slow hub - I could probably not use them now tbh as the setup was without the switch for a while on older routers with more ports!

What does the daisy chain option supposedly do when working?

How many wired Sonos do you have? It seems that Orbi can't handle wired mesh speakers for now. Please test your setup after disconnecting all wired speakers and see if there will be any improvement. I had many "strange" issues when I had mesh speakers wired to Orbi that all gone after disconnecting the wired speakers and doing a system reboot.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-10-15

Well sonos has been known to cause problems since they have there own wifi in some configurations.

Daisy Chain is if you have two or more satelliltes positioned in a line, you can have them connect to each other, piggy back off each other, like ina string of lights. When you don't have two or more or using wired back haul, Daisy Chain needs to be disabled. For some reason the new FW has it Enabled when the check mark isn't marked in the UI, so for your configuration on this version of FW, you need to put a check mark and this will DISABLE Daisy Chain. Only on this version of FW. This could be the problem as if your configuration had been working up to the new FW, then this is something to try out first...

@Shimmyhill wrote:

I’ve only had problems with the wireless backhaul causing drop outs, I’m hoping going wired will sort that!

The Sonos connections are fine, just a slow hub - I could probably not use them now tbh as the setup was without the switch for a while on older routers with more ports!

What does the daisy chain option supposedly do when working?

Shimmyhill · ‎2018-10-15

Two are wired and the rest wireless

Is the Orbi not compatible with Sonos then?

I don’t have any major issues with Orbi outside of the backhaul dropping out, with it wired it seems pretty stable already as I would have expected the iPad to have lost wireless by now when moving between rooms and thus far it’s not!

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-10-15

Ya running mixed back hauls, Daisy Chain should be disabled anyways.

The problem is not really compatbility, it's wireless signal interferences from Sonos are problematic.

ekhalil · ‎2018-10-15

@Shimmyhill wrote:

I don’t have any major issues with Orbi outside of the backhaul dropping out, with it wired it seems pretty stable already as I would have expected the iPad to have lost wireless by now when moving between rooms and thus far it’s not!

How does your Log look like? Do you see too frequent DHCP events in the logs? This is an indication of problem to come as a result of the loops caused by wired Sonos to Orbi?

ekhalil · ‎2018-10-15

@FURRYe38 wrote:

The problem is not really compatbility, it's wireless signal interferences from Sonos are problematic.

There are no problems when connecting the Sones wirelessly to Orbi. The problems only appear when connecting more than one wired speaker to Orbi because of the possible loops created since Orbi does not currently support STP (Spanning Tree Protocols). I hope that Orbi will support it soon!

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-10-15

Lets see if Disabling Daisy Chain helps first.

STPs are mostly meant for enterprise environments...not sure if NG will include this in Orbi for home environments. The use of non managed switches works for Orbi systems. Manages switchs are problematic in regards to IGMP protocols. If they are disabled, then Managed switches seems to work ok with Orbi systems.

Lets see how Daisy Chain works for now.

Shimmyhill · ‎2018-10-15

The box for daisy chaining is ticked so that’s disabled as I understand your previous post!?

If so will report back in a few days, thanks for all the help so far 🙂

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-10-16

Yes, on this version check box means disabled.

Let us now how it goes in a few days.

@Shimmyhill wrote:

The box for daisy chaining is ticked so that’s disabled as I understand your previous post!?

If so will report back in a few days, thanks for all the help so far 🙂

Shimmyhill · ‎2018-10-16

I have had a play around and now only have one Sonos wired as needed, all others are wireless and now the Orbi units and direct to devices or the switch so not using the Sonos or Home plugs as hubs, revised map attached!

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-10-16

That should work well...Let us know how it goes.

@Shimmyhill wrote:

I have had a play around and now only have one Sonos wired as needed, all others are wireless and now the Orbi units and direct to devices or the switch so not using the Sonos or Home plugs as hubs, revised map attached!

ekhalil · ‎2018-10-16

@Shimmyhill wrote:

I have had a play around and now only have one Sonos wired as needed, all others are wireless

Great. I hope this setup will work better now. Good luck!

st_shaw · ‎2018-10-16

@Shimmyhill wrote:

I have had a play around and now only have one Sonos wired as needed, all others are wireless and now the Orbi units and direct to devices or the switch so not using the Sonos or Home plugs as hubs, revised map attached!

If you have a Sonos device wired, then Sonos will create its own mesh network on 2.4 GHz. It works perfectly with Orbi, but you need to manually set Sonos to use CH1 and Orbi to use CH11 (or vice versa) to avoid interference between the two systems on 2.4 GHz.

Shimmyhill · ‎2018-10-16

Sonos is on channel 1 and has been for 10+ years (wow time flies) and Orbi is on 4 and I don’t think I have any interference issues - I’d rather avoid 11 as loads of neighbours seem to be on that!

I hope there isn’t a co flick between Sonos and Orbi as Sonos is staying as one of our fave purchases ever, never had a conflict before so hoping not!

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-10-16

Any one on Chl 6? 6 would be preferred.

ekhalil · ‎2018-10-16

@Shimmyhill wrote:

Sonos is on channel 1 and has been for 10+ years (wow time flies) and Orbi is on 4 and I don’t think I have any interference issues - I’d rather avoid 11 as loads of neighbours seem to be on that!

I hope there isn’t a co flick between Sonos and Orbi as Sonos is staying as one of our fave purchases ever, never had a conflict before so hoping not!

As long as you only have one wired device you don't have a risk for loops.

Please note the following regrading Sonos:

- Wiring one speaker will make it possible for you to use the Sonosnet (own wifi mesh).

- You also have the option of having all speakers as wireless if you have good wifi coverage where all speakers are located.

- You get the benifit from Sonosnet only if you don't have good wifi coverage from Orbi and you need the Sonos speakers to provide wifi to each other, please note here that if you use Sonosnet and the speakers wifi ranges are not overlapping then your audio system will not be stable and in this case it's better to use the Orbi wifi instead (all-wireless speakers).

- The speaker's mesh was always better for me, but now since I have excellent wifi coverage with Orbi, it's far more better to use the Orbi Wifi than the speaker's wifi, so I'm connecting all my 10 speakers wirelessly and the audio system is far more stable now than when I used the speakers wifi mesh (when I had wired speakers to enable the speakers' wifi mesh).

st_shaw · ‎2018-10-16

@Shimmyhill wrote:

Sonos is on channel 1 and has been for 10+ years (wow time flies) and Orbi is on 4 and I don’t think I have any interference issues - I’d rather avoid 11 as loads of neighbours seem to be on that!

I hope there isn’t a co flick between Sonos and Orbi as Sonos is staying as one of our fave purchases ever, never had a conflict before so hoping not!

You should only ever use CH1, CH6, or CH11 on 2.4 GHz. These are the only three non-overlapping channels in the 2.4 GHz band. Using CH4 is a poor choice, as it overlaps with CH1 and CH6 and prevents your Orbi from coordinarting with neighboring APs to avoid interference. You are better off being on the same channel as neighboring APs, because the APs can share the airtime.

Orbi will always try to use 40 MHz channel width. If Orbi is using 40 MHz channel width, then the only two non-overlapping channels are CH1 and CH11. That's why when you use Sonosnet and Orbi in the same house, your choices are CH1 or CH11.

The way you have things set there will be some interference. See below.

ekhalil · ‎2018-10-16

@st_shaw wrote:

If Orbi is using 40 MHz channel width, then the only two non-overlapping channels are CH1 and CH11. That's why when you use Sonosnet and Orbi in the same house, your choices are CH1 or CH11.

Correct!

And therefore -if you have good wifi coverage from Orbi all over the house- then you can save one channel and avoid more interference by using only wireless speakers and avoid Sonosnet. 🙂