Happy Netgear user now for several years, have no complains at all.
Though 4K streaming to my 4K tv over WIFI AC using Kodi or VLC (Android TV) is just lagging as hell, tried new router, did not help, now new 7200rpm NAS discs hoping to give it some boost (syncing now).
But my question is, should I be able to stream 4K to my TV from the Readynas 316 over WIFI, im talking direct stream, not transcoding (so far i know). Have about 80 megabyte second read speed from my PC with WIFI. Having latest triband AC5300 router, Readynas is connected with Link aggregation to my router, what else can I do here other than go full wire?
Is there on the marked today a NAS server that can transcode 4K content, or is that out of the question (just a side question), the Readynas struggles with 1080p transcoding (not possible)? The Readynas 626X is just a little out of my budget, would be nice if Netgear sold us a upgrade kit :).
How far is your router from your TV? Are there things in between such as thick walls?
The RN626X would be the model to go with if you want real time 4k transcoding.
CPU performance does improve with new CPU generations but not at the rate it used to.
You can create optimised versions of your 4k video using Plex and that doesn't need to be done in real time. It will take a lot longer on slower CPUs compared with faster ones.
How far is your router from your TV? Are there things in between such as thick walls?
The RN626X would be the model to go with if you want real time 4k transcoding.
CPU performance does improve with new CPU generations but not at the rate it used to.
You can create optimised versions of your 4k video using Plex and that doesn't need to be done in real time. It will take a lot longer on slower CPUs compared with faster ones.
Thank you for the fast reply.
My router is about 3 meter away from the TV, the router and TV can see each other without any walls in the way, so there should not be a problem in that front, and the router should have enough bandwidth, though not sure about the TV how fast it is connected to the router.
The RN626X seems to be a beautiful device, I cannot not justify the price, I mean it costs about half what I paid for my car in 2014 with hard drives here in Denmark, and i'm a personal user, only really myself is using the NAS server, so really only need the power for transcoding video files to my TV.
Yes for PLEX i agree, the format could be improved to match the hardware better for transcoding. But so far I know, Kodi and VLC does not transcode, connected to the NAS with SMB (not DLNA or PLEX), and still just lagging as hell. Only short test 4K HDR videoes from Sony. Maybe it is the extra bandwith HDR needs to run smooth? Have not tried any "only" 4K contend, will try that once my NAS is finished installing the new drives.
The RN316 isn't the performance bottleneck - 4K content is in the 3-10 MB/sec range (24-80 mbits per second). You have ~8x more throughput then that.
If you can connect the TV with ethernet, that might help - the TV Wifi client might be the bottleneck. You might also try different players - VLC might not be using hardware acceleration.
Generally speaking, it is cheaper to upgrade the player than it is to upgrade the NAS.
The 316 is going to be to slow to do any transcoding. My 516 wasn't fast enough either until I upgraded the CPU and RAM and bascially turned it into a 716. You either need a real computer to handle the transcoding or have the video file in a format that it can be directly played on your TV. The NAS is fast enough for direct playback. If it's a 4K TV, it'll Upconvert 1080P content and so you don't need the NAS to transcode. If it's 4K content you're trying to play on a 1080P TV, then it needs to transcode, or you can to convert it over. If it's 4K content to be played on a 4K TV, it should be direct streaming and the NAS shouldn't have any problem with that.
I don't know what you're using to watch the 4K content with? What are you streaming the 4K content to, a App built into a SmartTV? If your TV is in line of site of your Wifi router, why not plug in a ethernet cable between them and give that a try and see if the problem goes away. That's one way to rule out being a Wifi issue. Just because you're close doesn't mean there's no Wifi issues. It's one reason why I wired up my house with Gigabit Etherent. Anything with a Ethernet port on it, I plug in. I only use Wifi for things that move from place to place. Smartphones, tablets, etc. 2.4Ghz Wifi can be over staturated where you live. I fyou can switch to 5Ghz, that may be better, but not everything canuse that fequancy which is why if you can use it, you should use it.
Most downloaded H.264 1080p files require about 8-10 mbits. Full BluRay HD has a max bitrate of about 54 mbits.
Netflix UltraHD uses about 18 mbits (certainly no more than 25 megabits). Full BluRay UltraHD has a max bitrate of 100 mbits.
An RN316 can deliver about 800 mbits with large data transfers, so it can easily handle these loads. I think most 802.11n or 802.11ac 5G networks can handle a 25 mbit sustained rate, especially if you use a tri-band router. On the other hand, 100 mbits will be a challenging sustained load for most wifi setups.
So if you really want full BluRay ultra-hd streaming you should plan on a gigabit ethernet connection between the RN316 and the player. But if Netflix quality is sufficient, the RN316 and a good 5G WiFi connection should be enough.
So if you really want full BluRay ultra-hd streaming you should plan on a gigabit ethernet connection between the RN316 and the player. But if Netflix quality is sufficient, the RN316 and a good 5G WiFi connection should be enough.
Sorry to be picky ... Netflix already provide Ultra HD 4K streaming (I've been using it), albeit in small quanities, but it will increase very soon.
By implication, you were implying that "Netflix quality" was inferior to Ultra HD 4k streaming.
Not at all. I said Netflix UltraHD streaming is inferior to full BluRay UltraHD streaming. Which it (intentionally) is, since there aren't a lot of customers for 100 mbit streaming over the internet. And it would be challenging to deliver 100 mbit streaming to a large subscriber base - Netflix already consumes a staggering percentage of US internet bandwidth.
Similarly, Netflix 1080p streaming quality is inferior to full BluRay 1080p streaming.
Personally I'm fine with the lower bitrates, but some people do want the best quality possible for their home theater setups.
This lower quality, highly compressed streaming is needed because there's only so much bandwidth people have, and with CAP's, streaming better 4K would eat that up pretty fast. Really, why people find it perfectly acceptable is because most people have to small of a HDTV, let alone a 4K TV which needs to be even larger. Really the only thing most people may notice on a 4K TV is HDR which is part of the 4K spec, or "High Dynamic Range" for colors. But to really see the better detail, you need the correct size screen. It's really larger then you think it is. 4K is what you're watching at a movie theater. Now that's blown up. Do you see the pixels? Shrink that screen way, way down in size, how could you remotly see the pixels?
Since most people's TV's are to small, Video streaming quality can be reduced quite a bit because people won't notice. For many, they can't tell a DVD from a Blu-Ray movie on their 1080P HDTV.
The 316 should be able to stream a 4K movie as long as it doesn't have to do any on the fly transcoding. So if it's the correct resolution 4K movie, playing on a 4K TV, it should play OK. If you try watching that movie on another TV in your house that may be only 1080P, not it has to transcode 4K down to 1080P which requires a lot of horsepower of the CPU. My Upgraded 516 can now do it. When it was stock, it should choke on it with buffering, stop, buffering stop, over and over, pretty much unwatchable. a 1080P HDTV doesn't know what 4K even is. So the NAS would have to transcode. On the other hand Direct Play of a 1080P movie to a 4K TV, the 4K TV will transcode on it's own that Movie to 4K because the TV can only show a video in it's Native Resolution. Just like a HDTV trying to play a DVD that's 480 on a 720P or 1080i(p) HDTV. The TV's all Upconvert the video to that TV's Native Resolution.
Streaming from Netflix, a 4K Movie will be better then their 1080P HD version, but that's already not much better then a 480P (DVD) version. The Audio is even worse. Already watching a HD 1080P Movie streaming on Netflix, you're only getting maybe Dolby Digital 5.1 Audio at best. You're not getting the better Dolby True HD, or DTS Master Audio of a Blu-Ray Movie that may be even 7.1 You outright lose the better quality audio, and get highly compressed video, and for most people, it looks perfectly fine on their to small of a HDTV or 4K TV.
Really, 4K has more to do with trying to get people to buy a new TV since 3D has failed. You don't see much of them anymore. I'm laughing at those that just can't wait for 8K. Are you kidding me.
As you already know, I'm not quite as down on 4K as you are, though it is clear that 4K (like 3D) was introduced to try to sell more TVs. BTW, our main TV is only 32 inch, and for that 720p is certainly enough.
This lower quality, highly compressed streaming is needed because there's only so much bandwidth people have, and with CAP's, streaming better 4K would eat that up pretty fast.
...
Already watching a HD 1080P Movie streaming on Netflix, you're only getting maybe Dolby Digital 5.1 Audio at best. You're not getting the better Dolby True HD, or DTS Master Audio of a Blu-Ray Movie that may be even 7.1
The 316 should be able to stream a 4K movie as long as it doesn't have to do any on the fly transcoding.
All correct.
On video bitrates - an 18 mpbs 4K H.265 video stream will have about the same quality level as an 8-9 mbit 1080p H.264 stream. There is a clear quality loss between full BluRay and ~8 mbits 1080p stream (or ~18 mbits 4K). But I think you are perhaps overstating it a bit. For almost all material H.264 1080p and (H.265 4K) become transparent well below the full-BluRay ceilings (transparent means that normal users see no difference between the original and the compressed video). So many BluRay disks are using higher bitrates than needed (and most aren't encoded at the highest bitrates allowed). Plus half the video bits on an H.264 BluRay disk are devoted to I-frames, which provide good indexing/random access, but which aren't needed in streaming. Just replacing those frames with P and B frames reduces the video bitrate a lot,with no quality impact.
As far as audio goes, of course you are only getting one language. Quite a bit of the space used on a BluRay disk goes to the audio tracks. You can save quite a bit of space on the NAS just by removing the tracks you don't care about. Dolby Digital 5.1 generally takes 640 kbs, and that is a lot lower than any of the lossless audio modes (TrueHD, DTS-MA, or PCM).
I think the net here is that while there is a clear quality drop-off, there's also broad consumer acceptance of this quality level.I find that if I am focussed on the story the quality level doesn't get in the way.
Really the only thing most people may notice on a 4K TV is HDR which is part of the 4K spec, or "High Dynamic Range" for colors.
We agree that HDR is a bigger deal than the resolution itself. No TV (or camera) can produce all the colors that the eye can see, but technology has improved over the years, and a modern TV can reproduce more colors than the older ones. HDR expands the color palette of the signal to match what the TVs can do. It also allows for more dynamic range between the darkest and brightest scenes - again taking advantage of technology improvements. HDR helps at any resolution, but is built into the 4K specs.
Studios of course take the display technology into account when they master their video, so there isn't that much content yet that can take full advantage of HDR.
It MAY be sensible if transcoding is required to send a signal via a 4K DVD instead of straight to the SMart TV.
I only mention this as the DVD will upscale for you (if necessary).
Well, I don't see any reason at all to upscale 4K to a higher resolution. Perhaps you meant downscale?
More broadly, getting a player that natively supports the media in your library is often a practical way to avoid transcoding. It can't work around network bandwidth constraints, but it does avoid transcoding due to audio/video codec problems.
On upscaling - the TV should be able upscale/downscale on its own. However, sometimes an player or AV receiver will have better scaling hardware, so that something to try.
I was just trying to say that it MAY be worth cosidering sending signal from NAS via network to the DVD and thus to the TV, rather than direct to the TV.
Whether this is better than the starightforward way depends on all sorts of variables.
Regardless of wheher it is upscaling/downscaling is irrelevant as long as it provides the result that works for you with the equipment you have.
Most modern DVDs are internet connected, as the internet of things is now getting rather silly.
My daughter has a bedroom light that is controllable via the internet ... modern kids for you eh?
Most modern DVDs are internet connected, as the internet of things is now getting rather silly.
The original idea on BluRay (and HDDVD for that matter) was to enable interactive features on the disk (BD-Live). Since it was there, most players also added streaming and perhaps other apps.
FWIW the internet of things is just getting started.
Your 28 year old daughter lives at home? Ummmmmm,.... I won't go negative with that one.
As for 4K. You can direct play 4K as your 4K knows what 4K is. The TV no matter what will scale to it's Native Resolution. So if you feed it 720P or 1080P content, the TV will still scale it up to 4K. So the NAS isn't doing any hard work. On the other hand if you have a 4K Video on your NAS and you try to play it on a 1080P HDTV, the HDTV has no idea what 4K is and won't play it. It can't scale down 4K to 1080P. This is where the NAS can come in and Transcode 4K down to 1080P that your TV can then play. Or because I have a outside person watching my video and my Upload speed is limited. All my 1080P videos are Transcoded down to 720P at 3Mbps. Where as a Original 1080P could be 20Mbps. So it still looks great to them, but I'm saving a lot of data by not sending it and my Upload speed is capped I believe at 8Mbps. If I did 8Mbps which is the lowest for 1080P, they would suck up every last bit of my Upload speed and I'd have nothing for myself. They would also have pausing issues during playback as the buffer runs out.
So as long as you can direct play in PLEX, you'll be good. If you have to transcode 4K down to 1080P on a 1080P HDTV, you're 316 would choke. My 516 choked until I upgraded to a faster CPU and added more ram. It's the CPU that really makes the difference. If you just direct play, which is what a DVD or Blu-Ray is doing, the the TV will scale it up to it's Native Resolution to be shown on it's screen. If you're adding to the Video like subtitles, they have to get added to the video and so PLEX would need to transcode. I also think it has to on some audio formats. All you can do is try it and see if it works OK for you.
Your 28 year old daughter lives at home? Ummmmmm,.... I won't go negative with that one.
I've lived this one with my own kids.
It's not unusual in the US, especially in areas where housing is very expensive. Housing prices in my area (greater Boston) have reached the point where they are out of reach for most first-time buyers, and many entry-level salaries are barely able to cover rent. Living at home often works out better than sharing a small apartment. And it can give your child a chance to build some savings (depending on what rent you charge).
-If you want to transcode 4K, another option is to run plex on a PC with a good GPU (mapping the NAS share to a drive letter), to allow more hardware assist. There are some NAS that also support GPU acceleration, unfortunately no ReadyNAS has that feature.
-On scaling, I'd add that the TV advertises the resolutions it can handle via HDMI, and will rescale whatever the sender chooses to send to the native resolution. For example, my 720p set advertises 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p. There's no way for an external device to detect that the native resolution is only 720p. It does know that it can't send 4K.
You don't want to scale twice if you can avoid it. So if you have a player with a built-in scaler, you should either configure it to match the native resolution of the TV or disable the scaler in the player.
Going back to that 720p set, I have an EVA9000 media player connected to it (which can access content from my ReadyNAS using SMB). The EVA9000 has a decent scaler, so I have it set to 720p instead of using the scaler in the TV.
-On quality, I'd add that reducing the resolution can improve the quality at lower data rates. All things being equal, I'd rather watch 720p at 5 mbps than 1080p at 8 mbps.
Your 28 year old daughter lives at home? Ummmmmm,.... I won't go negative with that one.
I've lived this one with my own kids.
It's not unusual in the US, especially in areas where housing is very expensive. Housing prices in my area (greater Boston) have reached the point where they are out of reach for most first-time buyers, and many entry-level salaries are barely able to cover rent. Living at home often works out better than sharing a small apartment. And it can give your child a chance to build some savings (depending on what rent you charge).
OMG .... and I live on the outscirts of London ... I think I win that one, especially as she lives 'rent free'.
When I moved back home after school out of state, I was paying Rent. Not right away, but I did. Which is why I wasn't going to attack, though 28 is starting to get up there. I'd hope she's not working at McDonalds or something, should be advancing in her job and making more and more money. Is she at least putting money away and saving to get a house or something? Or is she out partying all the time?
So just 28, kind of hard to judge all the reasons why over very little info. Maybe it's living at home to take of of MOM who has trouble taking care of herself? You really just don't know. I moved in a single Wide crappy trailer for many years. I now now have my house. My Dad lost his when he lost his job, is now retired and lives at my house. He just turned 70. It's been over 4 years now.
I wasn't going to prolong the 'off topic' social conversation, but thought you might want to hear the latest in the story, and answer some of the questions raised. I have just come back from a 2 day trip taking my daughter to another country (second nearest to London) where she is renting a small flat, as she starts a new permanent job, reasonably well paid and hopefully fullfilling. interesting etc. My wife and I are very happy for her, although already missing her at home. This is a big step in her life with so many changes going on at once. The future is ahead of her as they say.
Back on the technology front, I had considered using my RN516 for streaming, BUT went a different route by buying a smart TV and using Netflix and Amazon (paid for by our daughter, before she left home) to view films, series etc. There seems to be enough to see on these which will take a lifetime to view anyway, without struggling with streaming from the ReadyNAS.
I have Netflix and Amazon also. But they don't have everything I want to see. I can buy the movies I like on Disc, Rip them, put the disc away and watch the movie anywhere now at any time. PLEX is really like my own personal Netflix type service. You set it up to have a different log in for each person just like Netflix, You can watch anywhere in the world if you have a Internet Connection, just like Netflix. My content though is all stuff I like, and it also doesn't come and go like it does on Netflix.
You're not going to find the latest Star Wars on Netflix, but it's on PLEX on my NAS. Ripped from a Blu-Ray copy. The disc put away in a disc binder as a last resort backup. I have a huge Disc Spinner filled with DVD's, HD DVD's and Blu-Ray's. It's 5 feet or so tall and storage on all 4 sides, top to bottom full. It takes up a lot of space. Hard to find what I want to see. Now I don't even have to get off the Sofa to find something. I can be at my brothers house and play a movie at my house on his TV.
It's not a Netflix Replacement, or Amazon which I rarely watch anything there. I don't have the time either these days. I do love all the Original Netflix content. That's been great. If I want to watch Star Wars, Star Trek, or a James Bond movie. I have every single one in HD, 5.1 on my NAS ready to go at a moments notice for example.
As for your daughter, moving to and living in London, WOW, sounds like she's pretty smart and doing well. Got to be a proud Dad. It gives you a excuse to visit over there when you can. A year from now, she can give you a better tour around the area personally.
