Setting up two WAX630 as mesh without Netgear Insight (Standalone)

[alxkkbrg]

Hi everyone--
I recently bought two Netgear WAX630 as access points, a router and two switches to create a reliable network for once. Netgear insight looked promising at the beginning but turned out to be very buggy and slow in my opinion. Because wiring both AP is not possible, I have to go with mesh for the access points. Due to the fact that the instant mesh feature is only available through the Netgear Inside subscription (which is just too expensive for my management needs) I would rather find a different solution. I do not have high network management needs, so that Netgear Insight at such a price point does not make any sense for me. Therefore, I will be switching form Netgear Insight to standalone.

To do that, can anyone explain to me how to set up/ configure two WAX630 APs into as a mesh network with a solid backhaul? That would be great!
I found plenty of clues how to do that in various threats around here, but not "THE" fool prove explanation of how to do it.
Can anyone help me with that and explain to me how to do that? Many thanks!

Alex 

[schumaku]

Alex,

Mistaken by some marketing terms here. A consumer Mesh system is a bunch of devices you can plug to the power and connect wireless or sometimes wired. On the wireless side, this means the APs are publishing a BSSID list of neighbouring APs on the same name/SSID.

The Insight Mesh allows one wired WAX to establish a wireless backhaul for up to four WAX.

There is nothing that stops you from configuring eg. your two WAX630 on the same network name(s)/SSID(s).

What Netgear Insight does add is the 802.11r Fast Transition feature. This would assist clients for seamless roaming on both PSK and 802.1x (RADIUS Auth), whereas the most advantage will come for the external authenticated clients, so much less handshakes will be required. Trouble is that most wireless client and OS (and specifically the wireless adapter drivers) still support fractional 802.11r implementations only.

When you consider the power your APs are using vs. the one year free and say a three year Netgear Insight Premium license for year 2..4, you fugue the license is a fraction of the power cost for the WAX alone. You get one year Insight Premium (or Insight Pro for devices operated in a provider environment) free - so there is nothing to stop you from testing and comparing the pros and cons.

Regards,

-Kurt

[alxkkbrg]

Hi Kurt--

Thanks again for your reply. What I have understood so far:

1. APs on Mesh systems are publishing a BSSID list of neighbouring APs on the same name/SSID (also known as a consumer Mesh)

2. You suggest that I could put my two WAX630 on the same network name(s)/SSID(s) to create a mesh like setup. Where the only thing missing would be 802.11r Fast Transition feature.

My further questions to broaden my understanding are:

1. Is WAX630 capable of creating a Mesh like array (publishing a BSSID list of neighbouring APs on the same name/SSID) in standalone mode?

OR

Is WAX630 only capable of creating a true Mesh array in Netgear Insight mode?

2. What exactly would I have to do to configure both APs into a mesh array without using Netgear Insight?

3. Further I found two options which might be suitable for my setup:

Create a dedicated SSID as a wireless backhaul or WDS

-Would you suggest rather to create a dedicated hidden SSID on lets say a 5Ghz high channel as a backhaul for the two APs or run build in WDS? (where is the difference? is there a difference performance or roaming capabillity? Is e.g. one more reliable than the other? What would be the downside of that setup in comparison to a true Mesh setup?

In other words: What would you suggest as a set up and how would you set it up considering Netgear Insight is not a suitable option for my needs right now.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Alex

[schumaku]

Scratch the Mesh term as well as WDS since you will operate a wired network with the WAX630 attached.

No WiFi "Mesh" system does make what the technical Mesh term implies. Its a bad marketing term for the throw-in systems typically operated on a WiFi backhaul. And no whatever hidden SSID you talk of.

Forget also about WDS - again because you operate a wired network wit APs - so no WDS involved or required.

You have the choice to test drive if the simple config with two standalone managed WAX630 on the wired network, with one network or multiple networks with tagged 802.1Q (except of one which can retained untagged), and map as many SSIDs on the WAX630 mapping to the VLANs as you need.

I simply don't know (honestly I don't care much) if the standalone managed WAX6xx and WAC5xx will provide the RRM information with the alternate BSSID by SSID table (802.1k/.11v). The difference in case they don't is a slightly longer time to re-associate to the other AP. Have two US WAC resp. WAX AP on my test network and never really observed any kind of sticky client or a massive delay in re-associate of decent WiFi clients.

If you desperate, run a WiFi sniffer and analyze the wireless control frames.

What's the point for not trying to start using Insight? You won't look back ... especially when adding Insight manageable switches.

-Kurt

[alxkkbrg]

Hi Kurt

I did a litte research this morning and used the information you provided as a starting point. You are absolutely right about not caring about the slight delay of re-associating to the other AP.

I changed the set up as following:

AP1 is wired to and powerd by/ to the switch. The other AP is mounted to a wall about 30 feet away. Both APs are in line of sight to each other.

AP1 and AP2 are connected through the WDS option (I know you told me not to and to do it through the simple setup of an seperated SSID. But the articles and videos published Netgear on Youtube about the WDS functionallity seem to exactly solve my problem). 

So far everything works fine, exept for two things:

1. The oddly "stuck on a-mode, with 20Mhz no matter what you do." of the low 5GHz network I am tryint to get solved in another community post

and

2. Is there a way to dedicate the 5GHz high channel as "backhaul" so that no other device can use it? I have seen even though I used the WDS 5GHz high to connect the two APs through WDS, other clients still use the 5GHz high band for connecting to the network.

Am I missing a setting to use a band exclusively as a backhaul to increase performance?

3. Quote Kurt: "What's the point for not trying to start using Insight? You won't look back ... especially when adding Insight manageable switches."

Well, I am sure that I won't look back on managing devices in standalone. I am owning 5 Netgear Insight managable devices, which would add up to 50$ per year to use insight. I just don't have to constantly keep changing settings. It the network is setup I will only do some slight changes. The annual costs are simply to high for my needs.

Best wishes and many thanks!

Alex

[schumaku]

Unclear what problem you try to resolve with using a WDS connection. No longer powering the second WAX from the GC510P, powering with a local power supply instead, and intentionally using a wireless bridge to establish a LAN connection from the wired GC510P (and the rest of the LAN) with another LAN segment on that wirelessly connected second AP?

[alxkkbrg]

The problem that I intented to solve was not to have to run cables all over the place but to use two APs to bridge the network and also broadcast the Wifi to the other location.

The setup that I intended was to wire just one AP to the GC510P (which is connedted to a BR200 router, which is connedted to the internet) the other AP should extend the WiFI and bridge the network with a dedicated backhaul and be also connected to a switch (GC110p) to hardwire more devices. The second AP is currenty powered by a 802.3bt injector because the GC 110p is too weak to do the job 😞

[alxkkbrg]

Does anyone of you know how to dedicate a wifi band (eg. 5Ghz high) to a WDS or SSID as backhaul.
Basically like instant mesh function in Netgear Insight does, so that no other device can use this band. I noticed that most devices on my network connect to 5Ghz high band even though this is the wireless connection the two APs use to talk to each other (WDS)

It would be great if you could point me into a direction of how to do it.

Thanks

Alex