Re: WD20EARS just added on the official HCL - mistake and is

KennyKentucky · ‎2010-04-12

Thank you for the link, I already read it.

I wrote WD and they answered the following:

Leider ist es wirklich so.Ich kann Ihnen nicht garantieren , dass der Workaround mit der WD20EARS zum Erfolg fuehrt.
Sie koennen es selbst testen , aber vielleicht ist es empfehlenswerter eine andere Platte aus unserem Sortiment zu waehlen.

Translated it says:
Unfortunately, it's really that way. I can't guarantee you that the (WDidle3) workaround with the WD20EARS leads to success.
You can test it yourself, but maybe it is good to choose another hard drive from our product line.

g17ss · ‎2010-04-13

KennyKentucky wrote:
g17ss wrote:
These also haven't moved for the last 24-48 hours. I will be adding my fourth 20EARS within 24 hours and report my findings, but hopefully everything is A-OK.

^^ any news here??

I've found a German article about the LCC problem but some users posted here wdidle3 isn't supported by the EARS - is that true?
http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Baustelle/WDIntelliPower

It seems that my ATA Error Count is rising by 6 every time the ReadyNAS is rebooted. I am trying the 4.1.7 beta right now and haven't reset the box since. My LCCs are starting to rise though. Last I checked they were at 13,000.

g17ss · ‎2010-04-24

Just to update, I just rebooted the box. I was going to put in the screws Netgear sent me but forgot to write down my values.

My ATA Error Count is now sitting after the reboot (it was climbing by 6 every reboot). I am also using the 4.1.7 T29 beta.

I will shut it down once more to pop in the screws and use the WDIDLE utility to hopefully stop the LCCs from rising.

Disk 1 - 709 Hrs - LCC 23009
Disk 2 - 707 Hrs - LCC 24608
Disk 3 - 708 Hrs - LCC 24579
Disk 4 - 613 Hrs - LCC 23490

CommanderQ · ‎2010-04-28

Hi everyone!

There's been so much discussion about the WD20EARS 2TB green drives working (in)correctly that I wanted to post all the information I collected and experiences that led me to use these drives successfully. Despite a lot of negative experiences from others, I did a great deal of reading and watched these forums closely for a month or two. I decided they were worth a try after all that reading, as most of the issues seemed resolvable.

First off, we should start with my original configuration: I had a ReadyNAS NV+ with 1GB RAM and 4x WD5000YS 500GB drives in an X-RAID array. These drives had worked quite well for me for the last 5 years, but since I had used 90% of my available space, it was time to expand. My NV+ was originally from Infrant, but I had kept up on firmware upgrades and happily used 4.1.6 for quite some time.

A lot of people had problems with the WD20EARS not being recognized by their ReadyNAS system until they upgraded to the newest beta firmware, so I upgraded to 4.1.7-T29 a few weeks before I ordered my drives. I was also aware that my existing disks used 4K clusters because they were originally initialized with Infrant firmware - for the new drives to work properly, I would have to factory-reset my system with the new drives to get the correct 16K cluster size. Other attempts on the forum to insert the new disks and let them rebuild generally ended badly (with expansion failing and a Netgear support call). My plan was to attach one of the new 2TB disks to my desktop, copy all the existing data from the ReadyNAS to that one drive, add the other three drives to the ReadyNAS, perform a factory-reset, reconfigure the ReadyNAS, copy the data back to the ReadyNAS, then add the fourth drive.

The firmware upgrade process was flawless and I noticed no new problems, so I proceeded with ordering the drives from mWave.com. When I received them, I found that they were all model WD20EARS-00S8B1, which is not strictly on the HCL, but I knew this would likely be the model I would receive. I plugged them all into my desktop computer to test them and start copying data from the ReadyNAS to one of the drives. I was quite surprised to find that 3 of the 4 drives were DOA - one clicked, one grinded, and another registered continuous parity errors. mWave was kind enough to advance-replace the drives while I shipped back the defective ones, but in the meantime I copied the 1.2TB of data from the ReadyNAS NV+ to the working hard drive.

The replacement hard drives arrived from mWave; I tested them (connected them to my desktop and copied a few GB of files to them) and found that they worked perfectly. I then backed-up my ReadyNAS configuration and powered down the system. I removed all 4 existing drives and inserted the 3 new 2TB drives, performing a factory-reset as I powered on the ReadyNAS. Using RAIDar, I configured the new volume to use X-RAID and let is initialize the disks (2 hours), create the volume (6 hours), and sync the disks (12 hours). Once all this was done, I reconfigured the ReadyNAS to optimal settings (no journaling since I have a UPS, fast disk writes, jumbo frames, etc.) and started copying the data from the drive on my desktop back onto the ReadyNAS.

I'd like to mention that I was quite pleased with the performance of both the ReadyNAS and the WD20EARS drives throughout the copy processes. In either copy direction, the logical data transfer constraint was from the single WD20EARS drive connected to my desktop. Copying data from the ReadyNAS to the drive took around 24 hours (it's 1.2 TB of mostly large files) and had a sustained transfer rate of 15 MB/s. Note that my desktop is a Windows machine, so this was CIFS access to and from the ReadyNAS. Copying data back to the ReadyNAS I saw the same speeds: 15MB/s. It took another 24 hours to copy data back to the ReadyNAS, and, in both copy directions, the transfer rate slowed a bit when it hit smaller files (e.g. documents). However I found the transfer rate quite acceptable and pretty darn speedy.

After data was back on the redundant ReadyNAS NV+ with 3x 2TB WD20EARS-00S8B1 hard drives, I powered down the system and put the fourth 2TB hard drive in the ReadyNAS. When it powered up, the system initialized the disk and I expanded the volume (6 hours) to include it. The final usable disk space was listed as 5560 GB - quite a nice upgrade from the original 1300 GB I had.

Once the system was working correctly, I decided to verify system health and disk settings. I checked the volume log and confirmed that the disks were formatted using the expected 16K cluster size that Infrant support indicated should be in-use. There were no errors in the S.M.A.R.T. data (ATA or otherwise). Then I went for the elephant in the room - the LCC (Load Cycle Count) values. Lots of people have extremely large values in this field, which cause concern that they will prematurely exceed the designed LCC count for the drive.

A little background on this issue: Western Digital designed their "green" drives to be as energy-efficient as is reasonably possible. As such, they enter a power-saving mode Western Digital calls "Idle 3." In doing so, the drive heads are parked / unloaded; when the drive is next used, the heads are obviously unparked / re-loaded and the load count is incremented. Western digital indicates that this is a power-saving feature that can save significant amounts of energy. However, some systems (most notably UNIX & LINUX) access the hard drives at an awkward frequency (from the drive's perspective), causing the drive to very frequently unload and load the heads as the drive enters and leaves "Idle 3" mode. From the human perspective, this causes the LCC count reported via S.M.A.R.T. on the ReadyNAS to increase rather fast - some people have it increasing by thousands per day.

The most reliable source of information for this issue is, of course, Western Digital. I say this because there is a lot of unsubstantiated rumor as to the cause of the LCC increases, how to deal with it, and how it affects one's warranty. This article specifically addresses the issue with the WD20EARS and similar drives: http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=5357. I suggest reading the article, but the practical up-shot is that it indicates Western Digital recognizes the issue, they are attempting to help users resolve the problem with configuration suggestions and a utility, and using the utility does not void one's warranty (there is absolutely nothing indicating it voids any warranty or causes any support issue). They also note that the WD20EARS and related drives have been tested to over 1 million LCCs, meaning that software monitoring S.M.A.R.T. data that indicates there is a problem with the drive for LCC values below 1 million can be safely ignored.

In my case, I saw the LCC value for each drive increasing by around 800 per day. It wasn't a terrible rate, but I wanted to reduce or eliminate it for the time being - as Western Digital states in the support article, the energy-saving features are negated when the drive is unloaded / loaded frequently, which is exactly this case. Using the article link above, I downloaded the utility (it is known as "WDIDLE3" version 1.05), downloaded a FreeDOS OEM boot CD image creator (FDOEMCD), placed the "WDIDLE3" utility in the boot CD root folder, made the boot CD ISO, and burned it. I then took each drive (one at a time so that I wouldn't lose track of their bay location), plugged it into my desktop, booted my desktop from the boot CD, and ran the "WDIDLE3" utility. This utility can be used to both read and change the "Idle 3" timer setting, which has a default around 8 seconds. Having read many other posts regarding the LCC values, I issues the command "WDIDLE3 /S300", which sets the drive "Idle 3" mode timer to 300 seconds (the maximum value). One can reset the timer to its default by issuing the command "WDIDLE3 /S"; one can also see the current value by issuing the command "WDIDLE3 /R".

Having set the "Idle 3" mode timer on each drive to 300 seconds, I watched the LCC value closely and noted that it did not increase much at all - only by 4 - 8 per day. I fully intend to revisit this issue when I have more time, trying values much, much lower than 300 seconds to strike some balance between LCC increases and energy savings, but I wanted to make sure the LCCs could reliably be stopped first. There were no side-effects from the utility at all and there is no risk of data loss running it as it only affects the timer value.

The summary is that the WD20EARS drives work very nicely with the ReadyNAS - well, at least, my ReadyNAS NV+. Even using the oft-berated WD20EARS-00S8B1 model, I had no significant problems. It just took a lot of reading to avoid problems, which is why I've summarized my experiences here to make it easier on others debating this drive. Given the cost of the WD20EARS drives, their size, and generally-lower power consumption, they're very nicely suited for use in the ReadyNAS. I think they should remain included in the HCL, but perhaps with a footnote regarding the "WDIDLE3" utility. The firmware version of the drives matches that of the HCL, the drives perform very well, and they do save power (my UPS reports a longer battery run-time with these drives), despite the fact that the model number is different.

I hope this helps anybody looking to use these drives. Despite the lists of issues people have had, they can (and do, in my case) work. I can't, of course, guarantee that they will work for all ReadyNAS models, but it does work in the NV+ with the beta firmware and a little effort. They are worthwhile drives and they are being supported by the Jedis, Western Digital, and Infrant.

Han_Solo · ‎2010-04-28

Thanks for sharing that detailed info with us CommanderQ.

TeknoJnky · ‎2010-04-28

yea thanks good info.

I think eventually I may go the same route on my nv+ using the EARS drives, but on my pro I will opt for high performance models.

Until then, I'm patiently waiting for the first post 2+ tb drives to appear, as going from 1.5 to 2.0 drives is rather small incremental space for the time involved, I'd rather go from 1.5 to 2.5 or 3+ drives..

efalsken · ‎2010-04-28

Thanks CommanderQ. Excelent info.

I just purchased some of these exact drives for my newly-arrived Pro. You didn't mention any specific prep-work before insertting the drives. Did you have to run the WDALIGN tool? or move any of the jumpers on the drive before installing them?

KennyKentucky · ‎2010-04-29

@ CommanderQ:
Thanks a bunch, great report!!
Theoretically, I was exactly at that point after all the reading but not sure to try it without proof... now you did that and it seems to work well 🙂

What about the speed loss some users report of with the T29 beta? Do you recognize that at your system, too?
Do you only work on Windows or Mac also?

Since I've only 29gigs left on my NV+ I'll order 4 EARS quite soon and get it done.

Bigbearf · ‎2010-04-29

I use the WD20EADS-00R6B0 drives with TLER /ON and WDIDLE /D with good luck. Bestbuy has them on sale this week for $149. I am planning on going this weekend and getting 2 more. I have had them open the boxes and make sure it is this firmware or the 00S2B0 version. I know that the above dos fixes work with the 00R6B0 firmware and this firmware tends to run cooler.
Hope this helps.
bigbearf

CommanderQ · ‎2010-04-29

KennyKentucky wrote:
@ CommanderQ:
Thanks a bunch, great report!!
Theoretically, I was exactly at that point after all the reading but not sure to try it without proof... now you did that and it seems to work well 🙂

What about the speed loss some users report of with the T29 beta? Do you recognize that at your system, too?
Do you only work on Windows or Mac also?

Since I've only 29gigs left on my NV+ I'll order 4 EARS quite soon and get it done.

Hi KennyKentucky,

Glad I could help - I knew there had to be somebody else out there besides me that was mulling those drives over. 🙂 I didn't notice any performance decrease on my system after the 4.1.7-T29 upgrade at all. File access seemed to be the same before and after, though I only use Windows / CIFS file access on my network. I've disabled all the other protocols and services I don't need, such as AFS.
The only quasi-miscellaneous thing I've done with CIFS was to install the Samba 3.3.7 update from the user submission section. I don't think that affected performance on 4.1.7-T29, but I can't be sure since I used it for quite some time on 4.1.6 and then immediately installed it on 4.1.7-T29 when I upgraded it (and after I did the factory-reset). If you do see a performance drop after the upgrade, you can always try that add-on. 🙂
If you'd like more info, feel free to either PM me or post another reply. I know how nice it is to go from a few GB left to having a few TB. 😄

kfrazack · ‎2010-05-03

Thanks to CommanderQ for his insight. Just bought an NV+ and two EARS drives. Will be following his instructions and hopefully have a good setup. One question, though, where do I find the beta RAIDiator 4.1.7-T29?

CommanderQ · ‎2010-05-03

It took me a little searching to find it, too. 😉 You can get to it using this link: http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=39470. Hopefully your upgrade goes as well as mine. 🙂

kfrazack · ‎2010-05-10

Just wanted to post my progress thus far.

I have two brand new 2TB EARS drives. I downloaded the WDIDLE3 utility, powered down my computer, opened my computer case, disconnected existing drives and hooked up one EARS, ran the utility with the /S300 extension and it registered the change. Repeated with the 2nd drive. Then installed one drive in the NV+ and ran through the setup wizard and downloaded the 4.1.7 beta firmware. The drive had 12 SMART errors at this point but no increase over the next few hours. Once everything was done initializing I powered the NV+ down and inserted the 2nd drive. It started the sync process and that's where I left it last night. Will post LCC and SMART errors in the next few days, but so far so good.

Thanks again to CommanderQ.

kfrazack · ‎2010-05-10

Ok, just checked and the array is fully redundant after 27h.
Disk 1: LCC 7, SMART errors: still at 12
Disk 2: LCC 8, SMART errors: 0

axxel1 · ‎2010-05-25

Does any one of you have the ReadyNAS spin down option enabled?

ibell63 · ‎2010-05-25

I have an NV+ with 256 MB of RAM and a single WD20EADS. I am thinking about simply adding a WD20EARS to this and I know it may or may not work, so I will be backing everything up prior to this. Before I try this, I will also be running WDIDLE3 /S300. I suppose I will leave TLER at whatever setting is default for both of the drives.

On a side note, I have had the WD20EADS for close to a year with only the issue of the LCC increasing a lot. It's at about 50,000 now. I havn't run WDIDLE3. I'll probably be doing that soon. I have had no issues with it other than that.

efalsken · ‎2010-05-25

TLER is just an extra step you can take to prevent the controller from thinking the drive is dead/dying while the drive goes into extended recovery. It only kicks in WHEN the drive develops a bad sector. (more often than you'd think, its usually transparent)

If you don't run TLER, and you get a report of a dead drive.....don't worry. Just power the ReadyNAS off, and back on again. The drive will, in all likelihood show up green. If it doesn't, then the drive really did die. 🙂

mrmouse · ‎2010-05-28

Like others on this forum, I recently purchased a pair of WDC WD20EARS-00S8B1 to go with my new ReadyNAS Duo (I previously had a reliable D Link DNS-323 but the 500Gb storage was getting tight and I wanted the Squeezebox functionality of the ReadyNAS). I diligently checked the HCL before purchasing: the 2Tb beauties were listed. Since installing the system, I've had pretty much the same experience as others here - repeated ATA error count notifications, plus a steadily increasing Load Cycle Count (had the disks 3 days and they're each at 1957 and 1658 respectively. In addition, the UPnP streaming performance from the Duo to my PS3 was decidedly under par.

To cut a long story short, my ATA error count woes seem to have been solved through an upgrade to the T29 beta firmware. This also seems to have improved the streaming performance. However, having read everything on this thread, and others, including CommanderQ's really helpful post, it seems I need to take action via WD's WDIDLE3 utility. The snag is that I've recently disposed of my Windows PC, and have only a windows laptop and a Macbook available from which to undertake the firmware tweak. Has anyone experience of running WDIDLE3 successfully with a hard drive plugged in via a caddy and USB connection either from Windows run under Virtualbox on MacOS or via a Windows XP laptop?

Thanks in advance!

roadfun · ‎2010-05-28

I don't believe you can run WDIDLE3 over a USB connection. Although I did try it with my Windows laptop. If you get it to work, let me know 🙂

BTW, if you search around you can find comments from WD that the LCC count isn't a concern. I posted a link on some thread here. But of course there is a lot of talk on the intertubes about it. However write performance is quite poor with my Duo and apparently the 4K sector size on the this model of WD20EARS is the cause. Netgear posted they will update the firmware but no info on when and apparently the x86 code base will be fixed first.

efalsken · ‎2010-05-28

After much trouble, I managed to get a bootable DOS USB stick. but the big catch is getting the drive to show up in DOS. Yes it has to be in DOS. the utility is quite vocal if run from windows (big warnings, danger). To my knowledge, there's no easy way to use it through USB. I had trouble even via eSATA, but eventually got it to recognize on one of my systems, but not on my laptop.

So, in conclusion, running the WDIDLE tool is a great idea. But quite a challenge on modern PCs, and impossible in a Mac house.

ddomnick · ‎2010-06-03

I purchased 4 WD20EARS-00J2GB0 drives from NewEgg. Followed CommanderQ's procedure exactly except used WD3IDLE to change the LCC value BEFORE starting to 5 seconds. Using latest -T29 beta firmware on 1100.

Everything went perfectly, reboots were normal, no issues at all. Copied several hundred gig of data in several batches back to the NAS. Write speeds were an acceptable 25MBS (CIFS + Jumbo Frames + large movie files). Just before bed I rebooted NAS - it did not come right back up and I thought I had a problem. When I woke, I found the NAS up and no errors. Log did not state that it had to resync, but it did take 26 minutes between shutdown and power up entries. The problem now is that writes are painfully slow at ~7MBS. I am assuming that I am bitten by the 4K sector misalignment issue, but my question is why were writes fast to begin with and now so slow? What may have technically happend during that reboot after copying data to the drive? Anyone have a clue? CommanderQ - Have you rebooted YOUR setup after you posted the success story and do you know if your -00S8B1's are 512 or 4K? TIA!

MrCyberdude · ‎2010-06-03

I think all the WDxxEARS and WDxxxxAARS HDD are all 4K Block size.

The simplest way to confirm is to look at the HDD for info,
if there is the WinXP compatability jumper (DO NOT USE THIS JUMPER)
for advanced format you have your answer.

ddomnick · ‎2010-06-04

Thanks MrCyberdude, but FYI not all WD20EARS are 4K. Mine in fact are, as the jumper settings for XP are on the label - A clear indication. I think what I was after was if any ReadyNAS guru's could hypothesize why write speeds were high while I was copying +500GB of data over several hours until I rebooted the NAS, at which point it A): Took an extra 20 minutes to reboot over normal and B): write speeds dropped off significantly. I think is is due to the 4K sectors on my drives, but why after copying copius ammounts of data? The NAS was rebooted a few times after the drive setup but before coping data - what changed? I hope NetGear lights a fire under the 4K sector support beta FW....

roadfun · ‎2010-06-04

I agree since the drive is on the HCL...

MrCyberdude · ‎2010-06-05

@ddomnick, can you give more info about which models are not 4KB Sectors or a link.

The 4k sector issue has allegedly been addressed for x86 models in 4.2.12:T9 firmware and I am removing each HDD for a minute and re-inserting one at a time and letting them individually re-sync.
At around 30Hrs each I will report back in a few days after it is done, probably in the beta firmware section.

My suggestion to you would be to backup your files and do a Factory install with this firmware as it will also give you ext4 and most importantly 4K aligned sectors.