Re: Nighthawk(R) X4S R7800 MD5 Verify Error

dhe · ‎2022-02-05

I'm also getting an "MD5 verify" error whenever I try to update from V1.0.2.84 to V1.0.2.90 via the Firmware Update Assistant in the router web interface:

After clicking the "Yes" button, the following message is displayed:

The router is downloading the new version now. Please wait...

then a few seconds later:

Failure
MD5 verify error.

I've been using this update method since day one and have never seen this before with any previous firmware release. I connect to the router from a laptop over WiFi, and using the latest Google Chrome, Firefox or Edge web browser doesn't make any difference.

I'd be surprised if the WiFi connection between the laptop and the router were causing this -- according to the messages from the Firmware Update Assistant, the browser merely seems to instruct the router to download the firmware on its own, not to get it separately on the laptop then transfer it to the router over the wireless network (which would indeed be inefficient and increase the risk of file corruption).

I'm not a big fan of the "manual update" solution, for the simple reason that the ZIP file that can be downloaded from the Netgear firmware and software downloads page has no separate checksum data available. MD5 alone is a pretty weak security measure against file tampering (compared for example to GPG signatures or equivalent), but at least it's better than nothing at all, and such checksum errors should not be taken lightly, especially in the case of software running on key devices where security breaches may have very unfortunate consequences.

(See also https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/R7800-Updated-to-1-0-2-90-now-wants-to-insta... for additional reports of MD5 verification errors.)

michaelkenward · ‎2022-02-05

OK. A sane and detailed response that doesn't try to play smartypants with us all.

I will pass on a link to your helpful message to the people who may be able to do something about it.

Two things they need to check:

what causes this error with the on-line update?
why isn't there separate checksum data?

Thanks again for the feedback.

aprayiii · ‎2022-02-05

@michaelkenward wrote:
OK. A sane and detailed response that doesn't try to play smartypants with us all.

I will pass on a link to your helpful message to the people who may be able to do something about it.

Two things they need to check:
what causes this error with the on-line update?
why isn't there separate checksum data?
Thanks again for the feedback.

Thanks. I would also prefer to use the automated method for the next one. Just because it is easier 🙂

michaelkenward · ‎2022-02-05

@aprayiii wrote:

Thanks. I would also prefer to use the automated method for the next one. Just because it is easier 🙂

Easier yes, but less controllable.

Fine with a connection that doesn't fail in the middle of the process.

Not so good on a wifi connection or an unreliable Internet link.

From messages that have appeared here, both of these events have interrupted updates resulting on routers with corrupt firmware and broken routers.

The updates process has been improving over the years, but some old hands still don't trust it, especially a completely automated process that happens when they aften't looking.

In some systems, the process downloads and checks the update before installing it. The update then goes into a second memory bank. When that is updated, the process switches over to the new memory, leaving the original there as a backup for when things go wrong.

This is beyond the capability of a domestic router, but it shows what happens in "mission critical" devices. I saw it in action in the "operating system" on an electric car, a Jaguar, impressive.

jmidway22 · ‎2022-02-17

Also getting a md5 error when using the web interface to update the firmware from .80 to .90. I read through the threads but I didn't see anything that solved this.. also the GUI update doesn't seem to work either with same MD5 error.

I manually downloaded it from netgear and uploading to the router which worked but didn't see the gui update in the support repository.

FURRYe38 · ‎2022-02-17

Try a factory reset and walk thru the setup wizard with a wired PC and web browser.

jmidway22 · ‎2022-02-17

Yeah that could work 🙂 but its just a hail marry guess. thats what I would tell people to do when I was in high school doing tech support and didn't have a clue why our product wasn't working correctly.

Also why does it matter if the pc is hardwired? When you login to the router's web interface and kickoff its firmware update process, it shouldn't be relying on your PCs connection to do that. Should be going directly from the router to netgear's firmware repository to download? or am i missing something

northwind79 · ‎2022-02-17

I've been using the same method for years. Advanced menu, click Administration, then Firmware Update. If the new firmware update available isn't already there, I click "Check Firmware" and get the info. Currently running V1.0.2.90 without issue after the manual update off a wired connection. I'm not sure why the MD5 checksum for the firmware package pulled down via the GUI does not match what is expected... Maybe a storage issue is truncating the file which would alter the MD5 checksum, who knows.

After seeing your post, I decided to check and see if there were any new updates, turns out there's a GUI update... Wouldn't you know it, but I click "Yes" on the GUI and hit the MD5 checksum error again.

New firmware is found. Do you want to update the firmware? (Yes) (No)

Current GUI Language Version:	V1.0.0.361
New GUI Language Version:	V1.0.0.423

Release Notes:

I'll run the manual update and see what happens. It's a minor annoyance, not the end of the world, but maybe it's the universe telling me that it is time to upgrade the hardware, IDK. Best of luck to you.

--Smartypants

michaelkenward · ‎2022-02-17

@jmidway22 wrote:

Also why does it matter if the pc is hardwired?

It doesn't. But past experience and an understanding that wifi is more likely to fall over than a wired connection means that experienced users try to avoid wifi wherever possible.

Should be going directly from the router to netgear's firmware repository to download? or am i missing something

It does indeed, but fir the same reason that they prefer wired – and knowing that Internet disconnections can happen at the worst of times – experienced users also prefer to conduct manual updates. Having the firmware file on your PC means that you don't even need an Internet connection to update firmware.

Too many complaints here are down to firmware updates that failed because the Internet and/or wifi fell over in the process. Wise users just like to reduce the risk.

aprayiii · ‎2022-02-17

@northwind79 wrote:
I've been using the same method for years. Advanced menu, click Administration, then Firmware Update. If the new firmware update available isn't already there, I click "Check Firmware" and get the info. Currently running V1.0.2.90 without issue after the manual update off a wired connection. I'm not sure why the MD5 checksum for the firmware package pulled down via the GUI does not match what is expected... Maybe a storage issue is truncating the file which would alter the MD5 checksum, who knows.

After seeing your post, I decided to check and see if there were any new updates, turns out there's a GUI update... Wouldn't you know it, but I click "Yes" on the GUI and hit the MD5 checksum error again.

New firmware is found. Do you want to update the firmware? (Yes) (No)

Current GUI Language Version: V1.0.0.361
New GUI Language Version: V1.0.0.423

Release Notes:

I'll run the manual update and see what happens. It's a minor annoyance, not the end of the world, but maybe it's the universe telling me that it is time to upgrade the hardware, IDK. Best of luck to you.

--Smartypants

Yes, I am the OP on this thread and I also receive the MD5 error with the language version update.

jmidway22 · ‎2022-02-17

Yeah its one of those things that used to be just nice to have but with the amount of devices you need to maintain and update, auto-updating features are becoming a necessity (not to mention how frequent exploits are being found). I do like that new firmware smell so doing it manually has its perks lol

I didn't see a GUI firmware img anywhere on the netgear support downloads, is that where you were finding it

northwind79 · ‎2022-02-17

Curiously enough, I am not seeing this GUI language version update as available from the Netgear download center at this time. Hopefully the next version will have it baked in.

--Smartypants

northwind79 · ‎2022-02-17

I did not see the GUI language update on the download center either. I'd hope that Netgear is wise enough to cater to the luddite moving forward and this is just a short-lived glitch that will not require the workaround of a manual update indefinitely.

Considering everything in my home from my mouse traps to my car can automatically update without issue, I'd have to imagine my router will have the same capability. Heaven forbid a 0-day exploit comes out, and our hardware gets knocked out because the automatic updates fail.

Hopefully that GUI update gets baked in to the next firmware release and the auto-update functionality is restored!

--Smartypants

jmidway22 · ‎2022-02-17

Dang I wish I was a wise and experienced interwebs user like you!

unfortunately what you're saying about not using wifi doesn't make sense to me.. The PC to router wifi connection is only sending a single post to the admin web server and that's it to kickoff the download / update process.. The rest of that is handled between the router and netgear's firmware repository and thats all hardwired. So are you worried that that single post action will have an issue with wifi?

northwind79 · ‎2022-02-17

I agree, Unless the GUI is somehow pulling the firmware from the client (eg - our web browser) and not through some back-end software mechanism which downloads the firmware image to the router for upgrade, the manual update is a workaround, period. I'm glad it works but just the same, I'd rather just have the GUI function as it has... for years.

Cheers!

--Smartypants

dhe · ‎2022-02-18

I'd tend to think that using a hardwired connection for the manual update is safer than using a WiFi connection, because in that case the.img firmware file has to be downloaded on your PC first, then uploaded to the router via the web interface. AFAICT there's no MD5 verification in that case, so if the firmware file gets corrupted during the transfer, this might pass unnoticed by the router, which would then proceed with the installation and might end up in an unbootable or non-functional state.

I guess that using a WiFi connection to trigger an automated update check and installation is less likely to cause such problems, as indeed the firmware download takes place directly on the router and in that case is followed by an MD5 verification.

jmidway22 · ‎2022-02-18

that would be crazy if it doesn't run that same MD5 check on the manual upload just like the automated update. virtually the same thing, it gets the file in storage and runs the update process. But yeah if it doesn't then a hardwired connection wouldn't be a bad idea for the upload to the router.

Kitsap · ‎2022-02-18

Your "tend to think theory" is just that, a theory based on your limited experience. Experience on this board with Netgear products and experience on another board with ASUS products indicates otherwise. Direct firmware update via a web browser and an ethernet connection results in significantly fewer issues than updates over Wi-Fi. When updates are completed without issue you seldom have users posting on the boards. Whey they go bad you have a lot of negative posts.

For firmware updates over Wi-Fi it is not a case of if they will go bad, it is simply a matter of time until they do.

@dhe wrote:
I'd tend to think that using a hardwired connection for the manual update is safer than using a WiFi connection, because in that case the.img firmware file has to be downloaded on your PC first, then uploaded to the router via the web interface. AFAICT there's no MD5 verification in that case, so if the firmware file gets corrupted during the transfer, this might pass unnoticed by the router, which would then proceed with the installation and might end up in an unbootable or non-functional state.

I guess that using a WiFi connection to trigger an automated update check and installation is less likely to cause such problems, as indeed the firmware download takes place directly on the router and in that case is followed by an MD5 verification.

northwind79 · ‎2022-02-18

I did get PM from Netgear support, so I'm going to take that route as far as getting the GUI update done. I'll report back.

jmidway22 · ‎2022-02-18

i did as well so we'll see. If they just walk me through a 30 min tech support script rebooting everything and factory restting it to just do the same thing, I am going to lose it.

jmidway22 · ‎2022-02-18

haha his "limited experience", we pleebs and our weak technical experience strikes again! and now that we are done reasoning from authority lets try objective analysis..

still doesn't make sense why the wifi would have any impact on manually kicking off the auto update functionality on the netgear admin console. your browser literally sends one packet over wifi with a post message in it to the local webserver on the router.. whether that packet travels over an eth cable or wifi, there is no way this would cause this issue or brick a router. if this packet is dropped or corrupted, it will just not kickoff the firmware update process. also the very same process except for the post is automatically performed by the netgear software without issue when you have it set to autoupdate.

with the widespread use of asynch processes on webservers, your internet connection does not impact the background process of firmware update. so for auto update, it does its thing whether you are connected or not. and with a manual update, it will wait till you upload the new firmware .img, run the MD5 check and only when those two pass, it will then continue its asynch process to flash the rom. your connection to the router will have no impact on the flash process.

i am sure some old or crap routers have poor flashing software that is not asynch but can't say it as some universal without even understanding why.

FURRYe38 · ‎2022-02-18

Until NG fixes this, users can go check out Voxels 3rd party FW for the R7800:

https://www.snbforums.com/forums/netgear-ac-wireless.53/

I've used his stuff before. Pretty solid.

Good Luck.

dhe · ‎2022-02-19

@Kitsap wrote:
Your "tend to think theory" is just that, a theory based on your limited experience. Experience on this board with Netgear products and experience on another board with ASUS products indicates otherwise. Direct firmware update via a web browser and an ethernet connection results in significantly fewer issues than updates over Wi-Fi. When updates are completed without issue you seldom have users posting on the boards. Whey they go bad you have a lot of negative posts.

For firmware updates over Wi-Fi it is not a case of if they will go bad, it is simply a matter of time until they do.

Well, forgive me but I fail to understand why you're making my post sound like I was dismissing the whole idea of updating firmwares over Ethernet connections. I certainly wasn't. I was merely considering two distinct scenarios:

(1) The manual update method, where the firmware file is sent from the host PC to the router using the "Upload" button in the web interface.

(2) The triggering of the automated update process by clicking the "Yes" button in the Firmware Update Assistant, where the firmware file is downloaded from a Netgear server by the router itself.

My point was simply that the odds of update failure when using a WiFi connection between the host PC and the router may not be the same in both cases. To me, the risk of failure should be greater in scenario (1), given that the amount of data transferred over the WiFi link is significantly larger in that case (the latest R7800 firmware file, for example, is 29MB in size), and also because the impact of data corruption would likely be much more severe if the said data were a firmware file rather than a simple HTTP POST request only meant to trigger the update process remotely.

Admittedly, this assumption is based on mere reasoning, not on specific experience with Netgear or ASUS devices. And without access to the source code of the update process, we people can only theorize, indeed. To go one step further, it would be interesting to know how many, from all the update failures that have been reported on this board and elsewhere, did actually happen in each of these two scenarios.

As a side note, perhaps you should refrain from making hasty judgments about the level of experience of your counterparts. You never know, they might have been working in the industry for over 25 years and find such statements a bit rude 😉

dhe · ‎2022-02-19

@jmidway22 wrote:
that would be crazy if it doesn't run that same MD5 check on the manual upload just like the automated update. virtually the same thing, it gets the file in storage and runs the update process. But yeah if it doesn't then a hardwired connection wouldn't be a bad idea for the upload to the router.

I was assuming it doesn't because the MD5 verification error seems to only happen when using the Firmware Update Assistant, and not when updating manually. If the firmware file and the corresponding MD5 hash come from the same source in both cases, that's pretty strange. But indeed, I may have jumped to that conclusion too quickly.

jmidway22 · ‎2022-02-19

Yeah hard to tell which it is but my guess is the repository the auto update pulls from isn't the same as the Netgear websites support downloads. They probably put up a corrupted file in the auto updater dir but the correct file in the support site. Who knows though