rbr50 and IoT/Tablo issue, traffic getting lost

[Jroach]

I have a Denon AVR, Apple AX (express), and Tablo that are all buggy...I think for the same reason.  Working with Tablo (since it was new) they determined that: "Tablo's local traffic is being lost between the node and the main router".  I've tried moving the Tablo hoping to change how it interacts with Orbi (Orbi vs Orbi's satellite).  

Is there a way to force a device to only connect to one of the Orbi's?  Denon also suggested this as a solution.   

Tablo provided this link as to the problems with Orbi (mesh) networks:

https://www.tablotv.com/blog/mesh-wifi-networks-cordcutters/

Looks to be the same problem with Roku as well.

Thanks in advance.

[Jroach · Accepted solution]

Temporarily reduce the transmit power level.  I'll give this a try...I had done this in the past so familiar with the process but can't remember why I didn't leave it at a reduced power level.

Thanks for the tip.

[FURRYe38]

What Firmware is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

Do the devices work ok if you turn OFF the RBS and only connect to the RBR? 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

[CrimpOn]

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@Jroach wrote:

.....

Is there a way to force a device to only connect to one of the Orbi's?  Denon also suggested this as a solution.   

.....

Tablo provided this link as to the problems with Orbi (mesh) networks:

https://www.tablotv.com/blog/mesh-wifi-networks-cordcutters/.

---

There are ways to influence which Orbi a device connects to, but there is no method to "force" a specific device-Orbi connection.

Some ideas:

• Power off the device.  Temporarily reduce the transmit power level.  Power on the device again and it should connect to the Orbi with the strongest signal.  Transmit power control is on the Orbi web interface, Advanced Tab, Advanced Setup, Wireless Settings.
• After the device has chosen the desired Orbi, restore the transmit power settings.  (Or, leave them set at a lower value if service throughout the building appears to be OK.)

As for the Tablo suggestions, they are interesting but may not be particularly applicable:

• Orbi does not create different subnets. There is no "hide and seek."
• There is probably no "Hop Scotch".  Devices that are expected to move are programmed to scan for better network connections at defined intervals.  Devices that are expected to remain in one location seldom have this sophisticated programming.  They find a WiFi Access Point and "stick" to it.
• Lack of "Advanced Features".  Well, if "Advanced" means that the user is expected to set up things manually, then I guess this is true.  The entire point of mesh networks is to free the user from this sort of thing.  "Oh, I'm in the garage.  I need to change WiFi to Bilbo-Baggins-garage."  "Oh, I went back in the house.  I need to change my WiFi connection." 

I have found that when a person says there is a problem, there is ALWAYS a problem.  If you can provide a little more explanation of the situation, perhaps folks on the forum can make suggestions.

[Jroach]

Furrye38, thanks for the reply.

What Firmware is currently loaded? 2.5.1.8 (also a source of pain; attached deice naming issue)

What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?  My connection issues with Tablo are all inside the house so I wouldn't think that the ISP modem type is realevant.  The NG router is the Orbi...maybe I didn't specify the model correctly but it's an RBR50 with one staellite (maybe called and RBS50)

Do the devices work ok if you turn OFF the RBS and only connect to the RBR? Yes

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? 8500 but the distance between where one of the TV's is located is such that the RBR on its own can't reach that TV.

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? It's at least 30 feet.  Like above, without the RBS the TV won't stream "well".  30' recommendations is fine for some I suppose but doesn't work for us.  

What channels are you using? I've tried a few (including Auto) but will give this a try as the Tablo is new and fails more often.

Any Wifi Neighbors near by? Always 🙂

If so, how many? A dozen maybe

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings.  I tried this without any change.

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).  I don't recall "armor or Circle" but will look and try those.

[Jroach · Accepted solution]

Temporarily reduce the transmit power level.  I'll give this a try...I had done this in the past so familiar with the process but can't remember why I didn't leave it at a reduced power level.

Thanks for the tip.

[Jroach]

crimpon, sorry...must have hit submit too soon.

Denon had also suggested this solution but I forgot why I turned the power level on the RBR back up.  I will definelty give this a try.

Thanks.

[FURRYe38]

---

@Jroach wrote:

Furrye38, thanks for the reply.

What Firmware is currently loaded? 2.5.1.8 (also a source of pain; attached deice naming issue) v2.5.1.8 fixes the device naming issue. Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update? If not, it maybe needed to ensure any prior FW configurations are cleared out. 

What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?  My connection issues with Tablo are all inside the house so I wouldn't think that the ISP modem type is realevant.  The NG router is the Orbi...maybe I didn't specify the model correctly but it's an RBR50 with one staellite (maybe called and RBS50). Modem Mfr and model are relevant as some modems come with built in wifi and routers which can cause problems. Just checking for this here is all. 

Do the devices work ok if you turn OFF the RBS and only connect to the RBR? Yes

Something is going on with the RBS then. Factory reset the RBS as well. If problem still happens, possible problem in FW between RBS and this one device maybe. 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? 8500 but the distance between where one of the TV's is located is such that the RBR on its own can't reach that TV. Ok. 

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? It's at least 30 feet.  Like above, without the RBS the TV won't stream "well".  30' recommendations is fine for some I suppose but doesn't work for us.  Having the RBS at more of a distance is ok. Just should not be any closer between the RBR and RBS. Building materials are a factor here. 

What channels are you using? I've tried a few (including Auto) but will give this a try as the Tablo is new and fails more often.

Any Wifi Neighbors near by? Always 🙂

If so, how many? A dozen maybe

Use channels 1, 6 or 11 with few or no neighbors using them. Same goes for 5Ghz channels. 

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings.  I tried this without any change. OK

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).  I don't recall "armor or Circle" but will look and try those.

Above suggestions working:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Throttling-Devices-RBK53/m-p/1858561/highlight/true#M81925

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[Jroach]

I tried reducing the power to 75 then 50%, cycling tablo after each change.  

No results.

[Jroach]

What Firmware is currently loaded? 2.5.1.8 (also a source of pain; attached deice naming issue) v2.5.1.8 fixes the device naming issue. Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update? If not, it maybe needed to ensure any prior FW configurations are cleared out. 

Yes, did a factory reset.  I'm reluctant to reset as Tablo will likely work for a few days then later fail but will do this again after i have tried your other suggestions.

What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?  My connection issues with Tablo are all inside the house so I wouldn't think that the ISP modem type is realevant.  The NG router is the Orbi...maybe I didn't specify the model correctly but it's an RBR50 with one staellite (maybe called and RBS50). Modem Mfr and model are relevant as some modems come with built in wifi and routers which can cause problems. Just checking for this here is all. 

No, just a modem

Do the devices work ok if you turn OFF the RBS and only connect to the RBR? Yes

Something is going on with the RBS then. Factory reset the RBS as well. If problem still happens, possible problem in FW between RBS and this one device maybe. 

I don't think it is this one device as I have three devices that exhibit similar behavior (Denon, AX and Tablo).  The AX, I'm not that worried about as we use it infrequently but the Denon and Tablo are used daily.

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? 8500 but the distance between where one of the TV's is located is such that the RBR on its own can't reach that TV. Ok. 

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? It's at least 30 feet.  Like above, without the RBS the TV won't stream "well".  30' recommendations is fine for some I suppose but doesn't work for us.  Having the RBS at more of a distance is ok. Just should not be any closer between the RBR and RBS. Building materials are a factor here. 

What channels are you using? I've tried a few (including Auto) but will give this a try as the Tablo is new and fails more often.

Any Wifi Neighbors near by? Always

If so, how many? A dozen maybe

Use channels 1, 6 or 11 with few or no neighbors using them. Same goes for 5Ghz channels. 

Tablo is showing to be on 5Ghz.  I tried all available 5ghz without results.  Do I need to change the 2.4 channels?

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings.  I tried this without any change. OK

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).  I don't recall "armor or Circle" but will look and try those.

Above suggestions working:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Throttling-Devices-RBK53/m-p/1858561/highlight/true#M81925

I have never enable/activated Armor or Circle.  

I disabled Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming without results.  

I don't have an  IPv6 choise for 40Mhz...only; disabled, Auto detect, Auto Config, 6to4 tunnel, 6rd, Pass through, fixed, DHCP and PPOE.

[FURRYe38]

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@Jroach wrote:

What Firmware is currently loaded? 2.5.1.8 (also a source of pain; attached deice naming issue) v2.5.1.8 fixes the device naming issue. Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update? If not, it maybe needed to ensure any prior FW configurations are cleared out. 

Yes, did a factory reset.  I'm reluctant to reset as Tablo will likely work for a few days then later fail but will do this again after i have tried your other suggestions.

Ok. 

What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?  My connection issues with Tablo are all inside the house so I wouldn't think that the ISP modem type is realevant.  The NG router is the Orbi...maybe I didn't specify the model correctly but it's an RBR50 with one staellite (maybe called and RBS50). Modem Mfr and model are relevant as some modems come with built in wifi and routers which can cause problems. Just checking for this here is all. 

No, just a modem

Ok.

Do the devices work ok if you turn OFF the RBS and only connect to the RBR? Yes

Something is going on with the RBS then. Factory reset the RBS as well. If problem still happens, possible problem in FW between RBS and this one device maybe. 

I don't think it is this one device as I have three devices that exhibit similar behavior (Denon, AX and Tablo).  The AX, I'm not that worried about as we use it infrequently but the Denon and Tablo are used daily.

Ok. Wondering if the RBS could be faulty. You would revert back to v30 FW and see if this changes anything. 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? 8500 but the distance between where one of the TV's is located is such that the RBR on its own can't reach that TV. Ok. 

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? It's at least 30 feet.  Like above, without the RBS the TV won't stream "well".  30' recommendations is fine for some I suppose but doesn't work for us.  Having the RBS at more of a distance is ok. Just should not be any closer between the RBR and RBS. Building materials are a factor here. 

What channels are you using? I've tried a few (including Auto) but will give this a try as the Tablo is new and fails more often.

Any Wifi Neighbors near by? Always

If so, how many? A dozen maybe

Use channels 1, 6 or 11 with few or no neighbors using them. Same goes for 5Ghz channels. 

Tablo is showing to be on 5Ghz.  I tried all available 5ghz without results.  Do I need to change the 2.4 channels?

At some point try channing to manual channels on 2.4Ghz. 

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings.  I tried this without any change. OK

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).  I don't recall "armor or Circle" but will look and try those.

Above suggestions working:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Throttling-Devices-RBK53/m-p/1858561/highlight/true#M81925

I have never enable/activated Armor or Circle.  

I disabled Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming without results.  

I don't have an  IPv6 choise for 40Mhz...only; disabled, Auto detect, Auto Config, 6to4 tunnel, 6rd, Pass through, fixed, DHCP and PPOE.

40Mhz is only for 2.4ghz. Just uncheck the box for enable IPv6.

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[Jroach]

Regarding IPv6, disabled and same results. 

Is there a way to change the transmit power for just the router?  ie: reduce the power of 5ghz/2.4 on the RBR to try and force connection to teh satellite.  I tried changing the transmit power (without change) but I'm assuming that is for both the RBR and RBS.

Doing a factory reset now on the satellite...unfortunately the problem will likely go away for a day or two 😞

[FURRYe38]

Not sure if the RBS power gets changed or not. Try setting down to 25% and see if the devices move to the RBS and keep there...Then try 50%.

[Jroach]

good idea.

Unfortunately I reset the router and all is fine.  I guess I can try and see what happens to the other devices.

Thanks again for your help.

[FURRYe38]

Ok, Be sure to make a back up configuration to file for safe keeping. Saves time on resets. 

[Jroach]

Factory reset of the RBS.  Tablo is back up but I'm afraid the problem will return.  I'll report back later with the results.

I also noticed that the TV near the RBS won't work anymore unless I have Daisy Chain enabled.

I would have thought this doesn't matter since I only have one satellite.  Is there another function of Daisy Chaining?

[FURRYe38]

Daisy Chain is only for having two or more RBS out in a line from each other to piggy back there connections off each other. Does not effect Connections with signal RBSs. 

Be sure your TVs fireware is up to date. 

Did you reduce the power output of the RBR any? 

[Jroach]

Yes, I did reduce the power.  If it continues to work for a week then I would say that was the fix.

TV is at the latest FW ver.

For giggles, I'm going to turn off the Daisy Chain and see if it fails again.  If so, maybe this is another symptom or indicator of my network traffic issues.

Thanks again.

[FURRYe38]

Keep us posted. 

[Jroach]

Status:

1. TV connected to RBS (About 10' away)

Daisy Chain turned on

all works well

2. Turn Daisy Chain off

TV now shows connected to RBR at 2.4 (vs 5)

TV fails to connect

3. Unplug TV and replug

TV now shows connected to RBS

all works well

4. Rebooted Orbi (without changes)

TV goes back to being connected to RBR

TV Fails to connect

I guess in changing the Daisy Chain settings or any reboot of the RBR, the RBR becomes available first so the TV tries to connect.  Reseting the TV causes it to reconnect to the closest point (RBS) at 5Ghz.

If that's the case, shouldn't Orbi allow broadcast first from the RBS then RBR?

[FURRYe38]

It's up to client devices to pick which signal it connects too. Not the Orbi. Orbi only provides the platform for devices to connect. So you proved this by when you unplugged the TV then back ON. it picked the RBS signal. 

[Jroach]

I also noticed this for the Denon AVR (which sits near the TV).

Wouldn't it be more effecient for the RBS to come up first?  I understand that the 

client device picks but it's picking 'first available' and in my case first available is a bad choice.

I'm going to reduce 2.4 to 25% and see how it goes.

[FURRYe38]

IF you reboot the RBR, then the devices should connect to the RBS since it's still up and running. 

The reduction in power on the RBR should help here...

[nicholb]

I've been using Tablo since they came out. Even though it can use WiFi the Tablo works much better if you can hard wire it. 

From worst to best

Tablo and streaming device WiFi

Tablo Wired and streaming device WiFi

Both Tablo and streaming device wired.

[Jroach]

Thanks nicholb.

agreed but that would require running new coax to where the router is or a new network cable to where the Tablo sits.  

I'm reading up about MOCA to see if that might be a solution (or maybe a powerline adapter).

[nicholb]

Would it be possible to move the Orbi Satalite to where the Tablo is? Then it would be wired and the Orbi's would handle the wireless connection via the dedicated connection channel. Not sure that will help as you still have a wireless link, but it does cut out the Tablo making it.