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Re: Expansion and encryption on RN104

stareck
Aspirant

Expansion and encryption on RN104

Hello,

I have the RN104 (firmware 6.2.2)
My drives are:
1x1TB Western Digital Red - WD10EFRX
2x4TB Western Digital Red - WD40EFRX.
First I created a X-RAID volume with encryption on 1TB disk. The space used for data was 1TB (no protection).
Then I added one of the 4TB disks. The space used for data was 1TB (protection).
Last I added the second 4TB disk (bay 4 is empty). The amount of space used for data grew to 2TB.
The disks are in a single X-RAID volume (RAID 5 under 'type'). So I'm getting 2TB space used for data instead of 5TB.
It seems to be someting wrong.

I don't understand why the space used for data did't grow to 5TB.
I verified the Netgear RAID Calculator, and the space used for data should be 5TB.
Done somenting wrong?
Is encryption a limit to growth of the space used for data?

Many thanks
Message 1 of 11
StephenB
Guru

Re: Expansion and encryption on RN104

You are correct that space used should be 5 TB not 2 TB.

Did you try rebooting the NAS?
Message 2 of 11
stareck
Aspirant

Re: Expansion and encryption on RN104

StephenB wrote:
You are correct that space used should be 5 TB not 2 TB.

Did you try rebooting the NAS?


Yes, 2 times.
Can I try to remove the 1TB disk? Any risk of data loss?
Has encryption any limit?
Message 3 of 11
StephenB
Guru

Re: Expansion and encryption on RN104

Since something is wrong, its hard to say what risk there is for data loss. I always assume there is risk when working with the disks (though I have full backups).

I'd wait for mdgm to respond before doing anything - its off-hours in Australia, so it might take some hours. If you can back up the data, it would be a good idea (IMHO up-to-date backups are not optional).
Message 4 of 11
stareck
Aspirant

Re: Expansion and encryption on RN104

I'll wait...

By the way, can you confirm that encryption has no limitation to expansion?
Could I have only one encrypted volume up to 16TB?

Thanks
Message 5 of 11
StephenB
Guru

Re: Expansion and encryption on RN104

stareck wrote:
I'll wait...

By the way, can you confirm that encryption has no limitation to expansion?
Could I have only one encrypted volume up to 16TB?

Thanks
My volumes are not encrypted, and I honestly don't know if there is lower limit. It seems unlikely though. The 16 TB ceiling is a restriction due to the 32 bit architecture of the RN102 arm processor. There's no technical reason I can see why there would be a smaller limitation for encryption.

So my guess is that you have run into a simple expansion failure - the upper RAID-1 layer across your two 4 TB drives either hasn't been been created, or the file system hasn't been adjusted to use it. The logs would give more information (partition.log and volume.log in particular).

If you purchased within the last 90 days, support for this issue should still be free (assuming your disks are on the HCL). mdgm might be willing to take a closer look (though he's just one guy, and can't do everything).
Message 6 of 11
StephenB
Guru

Re: Expansion and encryption on RN104

Just noticed this post by skywalker (netgear) from last April.

viewtopic.php?f=160&t=76049&p=423650&hilit=encryption+expansion#p423557
Skywalker wrote:
Expanding encrypted volumes is a little more restrictive -- we can't do multi-level (mixed disk size) encrypted volumes. If you swap the remaining 500GB drives for 3TBs, it should expand.


If this is still true, then the way forward is to replace your 1 TB drive with a 4 TB model, or do a factory reset with 2x4TB in place (which will delete data, apps, etc).

This appears to be an expansion limitation, not a volume size issue.
Message 7 of 11
Marto731
Aspirant

Re: Expansion 2 Tera/ 5Tera discussion

Stareck & Stephen,
I disagree with the 5Tera & 2 Tera conclusion, from 3pm earlier, and I expect 2 Tera with that combination.

Reply after ***

I have the RN104 (firmware 6.2.2)
My drives are:
1x1TB Western Digital Red - WD10EFRX
2x4TB Western Digital Red - WD40EFRX.
First I created a X-RAID volume with encryption on 1TB disk. The space used for data was 1TB (no protection).
Then I added one of the 4TB disks. The space used for data was 1TB (protection).
** Say Disk1=1Tera. Disk 2 =4T.
You are using 1 Tera of the 4 Tera disk. the remaining 3T is not used. This is mirrored to the 1 Tera on the smaller disk 1.


Last I added the second 4TB disk (bay 4 is empty). The amount of space used for data grew to 2TB.
** I expect this. You are actively using 1 Tera of each of the 4 Tera disks.
Disk 1 (1Tera) + Disk2 ( 1T of 4T) ==2 Tera with Disk3( 1 T of 4T) being the parity disk.


The disks are in a single X-RAID volume (RAID 5 under 'type'). So I'm getting 2TB space used for data instead of 5TB.
It seems to be something wrong. ** I'm not surprised. Remove the 1 Tera, which is limiting matters. You have more space with 2 x 4Tera, mirroring each other. Net space is 4T minus overhead.

This is an earlier expansion discussion.
http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=78042&p=436780&hilit=7010#p436780


Regards, Marto
Message 8 of 11
StephenB
Guru

Re: Expansion 2 Tera/ 5Tera discussion

Marto73 wrote:
Stareck & Stephen,
I disagree with the 5Tera & 2 Tera conclusion, from 3pm earlier, and I expect 2 Tera with that combination.
Without encryption, 1x1TB+2x4TB certainly expands to 5 TB, as long as the 1 TB drive was inserted first. That would be a 3x1TB RAID5 base layer (2 TB capacity) plus a 2x3TB RAID-1 upper layer (3 additional TB capacity).

Based on the skywalker post I linked to, there does appear to be an expansion limitation with encryption and multi-layer raid though, which might be why you are saying 2 TB. I already added that to a follow up post, pointing that potential restriction out. Skywalker's post was made last April, which is why I call it "potential" - possibly something that might have been fixed since then.

Simply removing the 1 TB drive won't help though, Stareck either needs to replace it with 4 TB or do a factory reset (restoring data from backup, etc).
Message 9 of 11
stareck
Aspirant

Re: Expansion and encryption on RN104

I removed the 1TB disk, but the space used for data was the same before (1TB).
I destroyed the volume and I recreate an encrypted volume by using the 4TB disks.
Then I restored the backup.
Now I have a 4TB volume (X-RAID/Raid 1).
I'm expecting that adding a new 4TB the amout of space used for data will be increased to 8TB.
Is that correct?

Thanks.
Message 10 of 11
StephenB
Guru

Re: Expansion and encryption on RN104

stareck wrote:
I'm expecting that adding a new 4TB the amout of space used for data will be increased to 8TB.
Is that correct?
It should, since that does not need multilayer raid.
Message 11 of 11
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