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Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

Hitman202
Tutor

Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

I have a Pioneer Pro that has recently died (I think)

Will not boot. It did show some signs of old age before it finally just failed to turn on.

The infinate reboot instead og turning off, and blinking diodes on the Lan ports as I´ve read on numerous other posts suggest a failed Psu.

I´ve tried hooking it it up with 3 other different psu´s but made no difference.

So I´m thinking the chassis has simply failed for some reason:-(

So here´s my question.

Will I be able to migrate the disks to a Readynas 314 and boot from that?

I know the 314 is only a 4 disk unit, and the Pioneer is 6 disks.

But I´ve used the Pioneer with dual redundancy, so actually a 4 disk array with 2 spare disks as I understand it.

I know many people have said that You only need 5 og the 6 disks to recover from Pioneer to say a 316.

So I´m thinking is 4 disks out of 6 from a Pioneer Pro with dual redundancy enough to recover all my data?

Message 1 of 31
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

Whilst technically that should be enough it's not recommended. If one of the 4 disks should happen to be failing you may run into issues.

I would recommend getting the 316 and using that.

Do you recall which firmware you were running on the Pro Pioneer?

Message 2 of 31
Hitman202
Tutor

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

If I remember correctly the Pioneer was running 4.2.27.

For all I know the disks should be fine and the array ok.

 

Message 3 of 31
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

Yes, but if you have just the 4 disks installed in a new model if a problem comes up with just one of the disks then it could potentially lead to all your data being unrecoverable.

Message 4 of 31
Hitman202
Tutor

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

I understand that.

But putting 4 of the 6 disks in the 314 would work well enough to get the data of the disks safely?

Does it simply boot up in some sort of 4.2x mode or does it need to reassemble the array?

I´m a bit nervous if it would start to perform some operation that erases the disks or formats it automatically to 6.2.

Would it be a much better option to get the 316 instead of the 314?

There´s a big difference in price and it appears that the main difference is the 6 bays instead of 4.

Same cpu and ram, so the performance should be equal?

Some reviews mention the 314 as being very noisy, that does put me a bit off.

 

 

Message 5 of 31
ifixidevices
Luminary

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

Could always just pick up another unit:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ReadyNAS-Pro-Pioneer-Edition-6-x-1TB-WD-Drives-/131645153551?hash=item1ea6a9...

 

Cheaper than the 316 and I believe more powerful

Message 6 of 31
Hitman202
Tutor

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

I have that option in mind, and have my eyes set on a second hand unit here in Denmark as well.

Seeing that my own Pioneer has worn out has made me wonder though, how long would I except a"new" second hand unit to last.

I would feel much more confident getting a brand new nas with full warranty.

In what respect would You say the Pro Pioneer is more powerful than the 314/316?

Message 7 of 31
StephenB
Guru

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

The processor specs for legacy NAS can be found here: http://home.bott.ca/webserver/?p=499

 

The Pro Pioneer used a 1.8Ghz E2160.  The RN300 uses a 2.13 GHz Intel D2700.   You can find processor comparisons if you look - the E2160 is faster (passmark score about 1000, the D2700's score is about 850), but the E2160 also uses a lot more power.

 

If you only look at CPU passmark scores, they rank as follows:

 

RN516 (~3700 passmark)

ReadyNAS Pro 2nd generation - includes Ultra-6 plus (~1500 passmark)

ReadyNAS Pro 1st generation (~1000 passmark)

RN316 (~850 passmark)

Ultra-4 plus (670 passmark)

Ultra-4 (~300 passmark)

 

 

 

 

Message 8 of 31
StephenB
Guru

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

A couple of points on the main issue - 

 

-I wouldn't go used just to get 150 pathmark points.

 

-Assuming your disks are intact, the fastest way forward is to migrate your data to a 1st or 2nd generation pro-6.  All you need to do is update fhe firmware on the target NAS, power down, and migrate the disks.  If you can find one for $300, that is also the least expensive way forward.

 

The short term risk is mainly that you might be purchasing someone else's problem. 

 

Longer term, of course a used Pioneer is old, so I'd expect it will fail before a new NAS.  So if you go this route, you probably should budget/purchase a newer NAS at some point.  Then re-purpose the used Pioneer for backup.  When it fails, either upgrade the primary NAS again, or pick up another inexpensive backup.

 

 

Message 9 of 31
Hitman202
Tutor

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

Thanks a lot for the advise, and the numbers:-)

I was hoping that the 316 would be as fast as the Pioneer, but as it appears only almost as fast, I guess thats ok.

After many consinderations in all directions I finally went ahead and ordered the 316, hope it arrives this week.

After my experiences with the Pioneer I simply don´t trust a 4-6 year old nas, so left out the second-hand option.

So the only question left is, what happens when I get the new unit and put in the 6 disks from the Pioneer?

Does it automatically detect the array with 4x installed, and will allow me to acces the share folders and copy data to other locations?

I´m a bit nervous that if I do something wrong it will simply update to 6x and erase all content on the disks.

The first and most important step for me is to get all the data safe, that´s the number one reason for getting a new unit   

Message 10 of 31
StephenB
Guru

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

You will need support's assistance to migrate your data to the RN316.  You will also need a temporary place to put it - the RN316 will need to reformat the disks.

 

So contact support before you try inserting the disks.

Message 11 of 31
Hitman202
Tutor

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

Are You sure about this?

There was another thread on the same subject that said You can boot from a 316 with 4x disks if the array is fine without help from support.

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Using-your-ReadyNAS/RNDU6000-won-t-boot-faulty-PSU-or-bricked-NAS/t...

 

Message 12 of 31
StephenB
Guru

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate


@Hitman202 wrote:

Are You sure about this?

There was another thread on the same subject that said You can boot from a 316 with 4x disks if the array is fine without help from support.

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Using-your-ReadyNAS/RNDU6000-won-t-boot-faulty-PSU-or-bricked-NAS/t...

 


I do recall mdgm's older post now (quite a while ago).  Hopefully he will chime in with the full procedure you need to use for migration.

 

Message 13 of 31
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

Assuming the array from the Pro Pioneer is good you should do this:

1. Insert a scratch disk (must not be from your Pro Pioneer)
2. Update the firmware on the 316 to the latest
3. Verify the firmware update was successful

4. Power down and remove the scratch disk

5. Move the disks across (keep the order the same)

6. Power the NAS on NORMALLY.

 

If all goes well it should boot into 4.2.x and you should be able to access Frontview (note there will be some enclosure errors but you can ignore these) and your data and copy your data off. If not, then contact support. Do not attempt to do other things as that will likely only succeed in making data recovery more difficult.

Message 14 of 31
ifixidevices
Luminary

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

For half the price you could have just bought another pro 6 unit (in normal circumstances they last a long time even with 24/7 operation), moved your drives over, then updated to OS 6 if you wanted to.

 

The only time I'd spend good money on a box that isn't an arm based one running os 6 is if I was getting a 12 bay 4220X with 10gbps nics in it...

Message 15 of 31
Hitman202
Tutor

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

Allright, thanks a lot:-)

Step 2 updating the software, do You mean by usb image, or via Readycloud?

Do I have to set the 316 up as a 1 disk nas with the scratch disk to do the update?

Message 16 of 31
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

Hi

 

Mine just died as well, or so i thought.

 

Initally it would not power on.  I unplugged the power cable, plug it back in again, and then tried to turn on at back switch and front button.  Tried this like 20 - 30times and then suddendly it will power up.  Weirdly after that, no issue with powering up again.   I found you HAD to remove the power cable each time.  Once i got it powered on it failed to boot it was stuck on readynas logo.   Restarted a load more times and suddenly it worked.  Backed everything up - and now unit in bin!  QNAP TS-253 Pro here I come 🙂

Message 17 of 31
Hitman202
Tutor

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

Here´s an update.

I got the 316 yesterday and immediately proceeded to recover my data following your steps.

Inserted a spare disk and updated the firmware  to 6.4, no problems.

Powered the 316 down and moved the disks over from the Pioneer in the same numbered order.

powered it up and it booted into 4.2.27.

Now I´m able to see all my share folders that were on the Pioneer via Raidar-browse, but they are all inaccesible:-(

errorcode 0x80070035.

The only share folder that I can access is the Admin folder, but that shows up as empty.

There has been some enclosure errors as You said.

One is fan failure that is on the front display ans pops up in frontview with intervals.

Another one more disturbing one is "no data volume" that showed up pretty early and with red lights on some of the front leds.

I noticed in Frontview that it was resyncing 2 of the drives, so I left it on when going to work.

Finished now with the resync and rebuild volume, but I´m still stuck with all the shares being inaccesible.

The "no data volume" didn´t show up again after resync.

Under volume settings in Frontview all the disks are ok with a green dot and ok status.

Funny thing is the disk space usage now is 100% and raid configuration is Raid Level 6, 6 disks.

I am sure that the disk usage on the Pioneer was no more then 85%, and it was configured with Xraid2 (dual redundancy), not Raid6.

I have rebooted the unit a few times and changed the password, apart form that no changes made in Frontview as I am uncertain if any intervention on my part would destroy the array

So status right now is that the 316 is on and connectable from Raidar.

There are 2 red leds on the front on disk 1 and 3 ( the same ones that were resynced)

And all my share folders are there, but I can´t acces any of them:-(

So now what to do?

Would it be advisable to power down and reboot without disks 1 and 3, or is that too risky?

 

 

 

 

Message 18 of 31
Hitman202
Tutor

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

Here´s what is on the home tab of Frontview:

 

Hostname:Nasty_Nassy
Model:ReadyNAS 316 v2 Business Edition
Serial: 
Firmware:RAIDiator 4.2.27 
Memory:2048 MB
IPv4 address: 1:192.168.1.7
IPv4 address: 2:Not Connected
Volume C:Offline, RAID Level 6, 6 disks, 100% of 3703 GB used
Message 19 of 31
StephenB
Guru

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

You have phone support, I think you should use it.

Message 20 of 31
ifixidevices
Luminary

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

Wow... I'm sorry to say this but I saw this train wreck coming a mile away.

 

The advice should have been, buy another 6 bay unit running 4.x, backup data, upgrade to 6.x on that unit, then buy 316 (if necessary) and migrate to that, then sell the other unit. Seems unnecessary but at least the data would have been there and safe. And yes I'm sure someone will be able to get his data off/back but still this is a perfect example of why not blinding trusting a company when they tell you to buy new over used, capable and much cheaper options.

 

I've got an ultra that I can downgrade back to 4.x that I'm going to sell. It's in perfect working condition and comes with the non push button drive trays.

 

Also from this thread about migrating drives: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Using-your-ReadyNAS/Migrating-disks-from-DEAD-Ultra6-to-my-new-516/...

 

You end up copying the data off the array anyways. I think an all around better solution would have been to buy another legacy unit and go from there. You could back it up, migrate to 6 and then use it until the need arises that you have to update hardware (or you could just stay on 4.x if it worked fine for you.) Who knows when they'll come out with new units to replace the current lineup.

Message 21 of 31
StephenB
Guru

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate


@ifixidevices wrote:

 

The advice should have been, buy another 6 bay unit running 4.x, backup data, upgrade to 6.x on that unit, then buy 316 (if necessary) and migrate to that, then sell the other unit.


Actually I did offer that advice earlier on the thread.

 

Assuming your disks are intact, the fastest way forward is to migrate your data to a 1st or 2nd generation pro-6...

 

It still is an option of course.  But the RN316 does have 90 phone support, so I think at this point OP should start there.

Message 22 of 31
Hitman202
Tutor

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

But is getting a used Pioneer Pro a better solution than using the 316 with 4.2x?

Is the 4.2x software on the 316 only an emergency solution that´s meant for backup only?

If that is so, why am I unable to access my share folders?

Now that I have inserted the old disks in the 316, and it has resynced 2 of the disks, will the array now be unreadable in another Pro Pioneer?

 

Message 23 of 31
ifixidevices
Luminary

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate


@StephenB wrote:

Actually I did offer that advice earlier on the thread.

That's correct, I'm sorry for not remembering that, mdgm was the one pushing the new unit.

 

Message 24 of 31
Hitman202
Tutor

Re: Pioneer Pro dead, need advise to migrate

I was considering that as well, but decided to go for the new unit thinking I could recover my data that way.

Now that has proven problematic, I´m hoping I can still go the used Pioneer route.

But is there any chance that will still work?

I´m a bit worried by the errors I have on the 316 with the old disks, so is there anything the 316 could have done to the array that has now rendered it unreadable in a "new" second hand Pro Pioneer??

I can return the 316 within 14 days, so have 12 days left for "magic to happen".

If I buy a used Pro Pioneer, there´s no return option so I would like to know there´s a reasonable chance of succes before I do just that.

Message 25 of 31
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