I recently had some corruption problems with my ReadyNAS Ultra 4 and with the help of Netgear technical support it is back up and running in a somewhat patched mode. Their recommendation is to upgrade the current drives (Seagate ST2000DL003-9VT166), since they are not supported with the CC32 firmware and can't be upgraded to a higher level, then do a factory reset and restore my data. Since my Ultra 4 has been running for about 4 years with only minor problems until my admin password got corrupted twice recently the upgrade is an unexpected expense so I am trying to do it with as little cost as possible.In reviewing the compatibility list for my model (http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/20641) I noticed that the Seagate ST3000DM001 is included and I already have two of those drives in a Mediasonic HFR2-SU3S2 4-bay enclosure configured as RAID1 and I ordered two more so I could replace the current drives in the Ultra 4. At first I was concerned about the one year warranty shown in the Netgear compatibility list but it turns out the warranty is actually two years, at least on current models, and even though it is designed primarily as a desktop drive Seagate shows it as certified in their compatibility list for business NAS (http://www.seagate.com/files/www-content/support-content/external-products/business-storage/_shared/docs/nas-certified-drives-sc522-2-1306us.pdf) although the NAS model used to certify it is not identified.I'm certainly not arguing that the ST3000DM001 should be preferred over the WD Red or Seagate Constellation drives for NAS configurations but it makes me feel better to know that the warranty is actually two years as opposed to the one year specified in the Netgear compatibility list and that Seagate considers it certified for NAS applications. I plan to use my four Seagate ST2000DL003-9VT166 drives in the Mediasonic enclosure and hope that is not as sensitive to the drive firmware issues as my Ultra 4.Perhaps this information will be helpful to users that are on a tight budget and might be able to afford the ST3000DM001 drives but not the more expensive "NAS" drives for an upgrade or new installation.

The cost difference in the UK is under 10%. The absolute difference is very small. The warranty on the red drives is 3 years.I would not get the DM drives.

The 3TB WD Red drives (which at least in the US have a five year warranty) are currently $166 apiece on Newegg and I got two of the ST3000DM001 drives from them for $175. That's a lot more than 10% but like many other things YMMV.The original definition of RAID was was Reliable Array of Inexpensive Disks although IBM changed it to Reliable Array of Independent Disks since nothing they sell to enterprises is inexpensive. :)No doubt that the enterprise NAS drives should have a longer life but with free replacements during the two year warranty period and lower per drive replacement costs after that I'm willing to take a chance. My understanding is that the recent models of the ST3000DM001 (7200.14) drives are more reliable than the older models which did not have a very good record.Edit: It turns out there are currently two models of the 3TB WD Red drive listed on Newegg, the IntelliPower (variable rotational speed) WD30EFRX model with a three year warranty for $119, and the 7200 RPM WD3001FFSX "Pro" model with a five year warranty for $166. Only the WD30EFRX model is certified by Netgear for use in the ReadyNAS Ultra 4.

Yes you would have wanted the standard red drives. Yes the cost difference is more than 10%, but still only $30 per drive. I suppose it's comes down to the value of 1 extra year of warranty and a good track record in readynas units; and of course how tight your budget is.

And the fact that I had two of the ST3000DM001 7200.14 drives already. If I were buying four new drives I might consider spending the additional money ($120) for the standard WD Red drives. Whatever performance is lost by IntelliPower versus 7200 RPM is probably offset by less heat generation and longer drive life.

I have my rn104 equiped with the st2000dm001, wich i regret. These drives are dropping like dead mosquitos. 2 of the drives are 2 years and still running. the 2 newer ones (1.5 year) both broke down and one of them is still at Seagate for warranty. I replaced that drive with a 3TB Seagate NAS drive and hope for the best. The next failing one will allso be replaced with a NAS drive.For the statistics... The NAS runs about 10 hours a week.

Seagate ST3000DM001 7200.14 Compatibility and Warranty

21 Replies

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StephenB

Guru - Experienced User

Jun 14, 2015

vandermerwe wrote:
Well, that would not make very good business sense from the drive manufacturer's point of view. Essentially you are saying they should insure you against making the wrong choice in the first place. Even if they offered this, the net cost to the consumer would likely be higher than if they had just bought the most appropriate drives at the outset.

vandermerwe wrote:
Well, that would not make very good business sense from the drive manufacturer's point of view. Essentially you are saying they should insure you against making the wrong choice in the first place. Even if they offered this, the net cost to the consumer would likely be higher than if they had just bought the most appropriate drives at the outset.

Well, if I had an option to upgrade the drive when doing an RMA, I'd certainly look at the deal. i think it would build some customer loyalty even if I decided not to take it.

I don't see any business issue for the vendor, since it is limited to a failed drive replacement under warranty and they are setting the upgrade price.

ramjet73 wrote:
vandermerwe wrote:
...Can you not return the DM drives?
I don't think so since the first two were purchased from Newegg in early May of this year. I still think they may be the "right" drives for me given my situation and the fact that they are on both Seagate's and Netgear's certification lists for NAS drives but time will tell.

From what I've read here and elsewhere, I'd personally avoid DM for NAS use. If I were to go with Seagate I'd pick a VN drive.

vandermerwe
Master
Jun 14, 2015
It's really "enhanced" warranty coverage that we are talking about. I think in principle allowing customers retrospectively to opt for an upgrade rather than a warranty repair/replacement for any product would not make business sense either because it would be too costly or that the cost to the consumer would be too high to make it an attractive proposition.
I guess if the consumer paid for this kind of "enhanced" warranty upfront at time of initial purchase then consumers who are uncertain could opt for this. I think if it were available retrospectively then we'd all end up subsidising it through higher purchase prices.
ramjet73
Aspirant
Jun 14, 2015
I don't see why any subsidy would be required since if the upgrade cost was wholesale/retail price of the upgrade drive minus wholesale/retail price of the failed drive they could actually make money on the upgrade.

StephenB

Guru - Experienced User

Jun 14, 2015

vandermerwe wrote:
It's really "enhanced" warranty coverage that we are talking about. I think in principle allowing customers retrospectively to opt for an upgrade rather than a warranty repair/replacement for any product would not make business sense either because it would be too costly or that the cost to the consumer would be too high to make it an attractive proposition.
I guess if the consumer paid or this kind of "enhanced" warranty upfront at time of initial purchase then consumers who are uncertain could opt for this. I think if it were available retrospectively then we'd all end up subsidising it through higher purchase prices.

vandermerwe wrote:
It's really "enhanced" warranty coverage that we are talking about. I think in principle allowing customers retrospectively to opt for an upgrade rather than a warranty repair/replacement for any product would not make business sense either because it would be too costly or that the cost to the consumer would be too high to make it an attractive proposition. I guess if the consumer paid or this kind of "enhanced" warranty upfront at time of initial purchase then consumers who are uncertain could opt for this. I think if it were available retrospectively then we'd all end up subsidising it through higher purchase prices.

It all depends on the pricing.

Assume Seagate normally charges Y dollars to a volume channel like Amazon for the drive I want to upgrade to, and that it costs them X dollars to provide a normal warranty replacement of the drive that failed.

If they offer me an upgrade-on-failure at a price of Y-X dollars, it is at least revenue-neutral for Seagate and likely cheaper for me. No need for "subsidizing through higher purchase prices".

(ramjet73 made the same observation in the previous post).

ramjet73
Aspirant
Jun 14, 2015
StephenB wrote:
From what I've read here and elsewhere, I'd personally avoid DM for NAS use. If I were to go with Seagate I'd pick a VN drive.

Ironically the Seagate 3TB VN model is not certified by Netgear for use in the Ultra 4. The only Seagate drives on that list are the Constellation, Barracuda XT and Barracuda 7200.14 and I can't afford the Constellation model @ $350 per drive. It seems the obvious choice for users on a tight budget that want a drive specifically designed for NAS use is the WD Red standard model (WD30EFRX).

StephenB wrote:
From what I've read here and elsewhere, I'd personally avoid DM for NAS use. If I were to go with Seagate I'd pick a VN drive.

StephenB

Guru - Experienced User

Jun 14, 2015

ramjet73 wrote:
StephenB wrote:
From what I've read here and elsewhere, I'd personally avoid DM for NAS use. If I were to go with Seagate I'd pick a VN drive.

Ironically the Seagate 3TB VN model is not certified by Netgear for use in the Ultra 4. The only Seagate drives on that list are the Constellation, Barracuda XT and Barracuda 7200.14 and I can't afford the Constellation model @ $350 per drive. It seems the obvious choice for users on a tight budget that want a drive specifically designed for NAS use is the WD Red standard model (WD30EFRX).

I prefer WDC, so I use WD30EFRX in my Pro-6.

Despite the HCL I'd still pick a VN drive over a DM if I were a seagate user. There are too many issues with DM drives posted here. BackBlaze reports very high failure rates on the ST3000DM001 in particular (though they report good reliability with the ST4000DM000).

Many of us have been annoyed about the never-changing HCL for legacy NAS for a long time.

ramjet73
Aspirant
Jun 14, 2015
After all the feedback in this thread, and since my Newegg order won't arrive until Tuesday and can still be refused or returned, I went back and looked at options to use my two ST3000DM001 drives for backup and order four new WD Red WD30EFRX drives to replace my unsupported ST2000DL003-9VT166 drives currently in my Ultra 4. Newegg is running a special on the WD30EFRX which expires today and I could get four for $420 and a two drive Mediasonic RAID enclosure for $60 so I could use my existing two ST3000DM001 drives in RAID 0 array for backup. Although that would give me 1TB more backup space than the 5TB Seagate STEB5000100 expansion drive I ordered with the two additional ST3000DM001 drives the total cost would be $480 versus $295 that I paid for the Barracuda 7200.14 drives and the 5TB external drive (with another promotion). This is an "emergency" acquisition for me to address my recent problems and the Netgear support issue and I really can't afford the $185 difference so I think I'll take my chances with four ST3000DM001 drives in my Ultra 4.

I do appreciate all the feedback though and will update this thread if I have any issues with the ST3000DM001 drives in the near future.
vandermerwe
Master
Jun 14, 2015
I agree it depends on pricing, but you are both assuming that the company could make it an attractive proposition for a customer while getting the customer to pay for the entire cost to the company of being able to offer this.
It's not going to be as simple as you suggest. The defective drives are going to hold value and if the company can't realise this value by being able to refurbish and use for warranty replacement then it's lost value. The warranty model we are talking about only involves going up a grade of drive so there is going to be a cost related to lower grade drives returned under warranty that cannot be used. There will also be an issue related to insufficient refurbished drives of the higher grade being available for these enhanced warranty customers therefore new drives are going to be used - at higher cost to the company than refurbished drives.

Since none of us know the actual costs involved here, nor do we know what the demand would be, or for at matter the price point; perhaps we should just agree to disagree.
ramjet73
Aspirant
Jun 14, 2015
I took one last look at the WD Red WD30EFRX drives on Newegg since they are on special today to read the user reviews and determine if I should try to come up with the extra money somehow. To my surprise the overall rating is only three stars for the standard WD Red drive and there are many reports of DOA drives (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822236344). By comparison the ST3000DM001 7200.14 drive had a comparable number of DOA complaints and the same 3 star rating (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822148844). The WD30EFRX does have a 4.5 star rating on Amazon versus a 4 star rating for the ST3000DM001 but the Newegg reviews don't make me feel real confident about either drive.

The WD30EFRX is better suited to NAS applications and should have a longer life due to a lower rotation speed and less heat generation but the moral of the story is that both these drives are consumer oriented models and not up to the quality standards of the enterprise drives. The real life experience of users in these forums is definitely more valuable than reviews from customers that often take the time to write them only if they are dissatisfied with the product.
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired
Jun 14, 2015
In my experience my 6 x WD30EFRX drives have been great.

It is a much more reliable drive than the ST3000DM001. If you prefer SeaGate the SeaGate NAS drives are a much better option than the ST3000DM001.

I've been so happy with my WD30EFRX drives in my Ultra 6 that I recently purchased 6 x WD60EFRX for my 516.

Of course if you want the best reliability then go with an enterprise drive, but you do have to pay a lot more for those.

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Seagate ST3000DM001 7200.14 Compatibility and Warranty

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