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Forum Discussion
Western Digital WD1002FBYS head click noise (#10987106)
Hi Everyone,
I need help with what appears to be a compatibility issue with the ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer and HCL approved Western Digital drives. For background please see:
Strange Problem with Western Digital WD10EADS
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31572
Note: the difference between the WD10EACS and the WD10EADS is the size of the cache (16MB vs 32MB). Otherwise they are identical. Nevertheless, because the WD10EADS is not currently on the HCL, I removed it from subsequent testing.
Over the past three months, I have set up three entirely different Pro Pioneers with three entirely different WD1002FBYS RE3 drive sets. I have tried formatting in X-RAID, X-RAID-2 and Flex-RAID, with 1, 2, 3, and 4 disks.
In each case, after the RAID is fully set-up, re-synched and completely idle, I hear a constant head click sound every 10-15 seconds. You can download/listen to the sound at this link:
http://propaganda.com/dhl/media/click.aif
This sound is audible 20' away from the ReadyNAS. The sound only occurs when the ReadyNAS is idle. It happens with and without a network connection or data on the NAS.
I have spoken with and played the sound for WD level-2 technical support. Their engineers tell me this is *definitely not* normal behavior for these drives.
On WD's advice, I tested individual drives in a SATA dock connected to my computer. I found that they make this sound for a few seconds after mounting, then become completely quiet.
It appears that the drives are getting stuck in a calibration loop when used in the ReadyNAS.
I reported these results to WD. The WD engineers suggested a low-level SATA hardware or device-driver level incompatibility between the ReadyNAS and the drives may be the cause.
I've been reporting my findings to Netgear support (case# 9787229, now case# 10374423) for about three months.
I've been told that level-3 Netgear engineers say that this sound is normal, however, it's not clear to me that level-3 is actually testing this configuration.
These are enterprise class drives designed to run 24/7. Frankly, I can't believe these drives would pass QA with this behavior. Having the heads click every 10-15 seconds is *not* normal and can't be good in the long run.
Based on the difficulties I've read in other threads with the RE4, I suspect there may be problems with the RE3 that slipped thru the cracks.
Jedi's, I need your advice.
The only reason my partners and I bought these drives is because of WD's reputation and the fact that they were on the HCL. We need this resolved so that we can put our ReadyNAS's into production with confidence.
I'd also appreciate hearing from any other users of these drives on whether you experience these issues.
Thanks everyone for your help.
--dhl
I need help with what appears to be a compatibility issue with the ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer and HCL approved Western Digital drives. For background please see:
Strange Problem with Western Digital WD10EADS
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31572
Note: the difference between the WD10EACS and the WD10EADS is the size of the cache (16MB vs 32MB). Otherwise they are identical. Nevertheless, because the WD10EADS is not currently on the HCL, I removed it from subsequent testing.
Over the past three months, I have set up three entirely different Pro Pioneers with three entirely different WD1002FBYS RE3 drive sets. I have tried formatting in X-RAID, X-RAID-2 and Flex-RAID, with 1, 2, 3, and 4 disks.
In each case, after the RAID is fully set-up, re-synched and completely idle, I hear a constant head click sound every 10-15 seconds. You can download/listen to the sound at this link:
http://propaganda.com/dhl/media/click.aif
This sound is audible 20' away from the ReadyNAS. The sound only occurs when the ReadyNAS is idle. It happens with and without a network connection or data on the NAS.
I have spoken with and played the sound for WD level-2 technical support. Their engineers tell me this is *definitely not* normal behavior for these drives.
On WD's advice, I tested individual drives in a SATA dock connected to my computer. I found that they make this sound for a few seconds after mounting, then become completely quiet.
It appears that the drives are getting stuck in a calibration loop when used in the ReadyNAS.
I reported these results to WD. The WD engineers suggested a low-level SATA hardware or device-driver level incompatibility between the ReadyNAS and the drives may be the cause.
I've been reporting my findings to Netgear support (case# 9787229, now case# 10374423) for about three months.
I've been told that level-3 Netgear engineers say that this sound is normal, however, it's not clear to me that level-3 is actually testing this configuration.
These are enterprise class drives designed to run 24/7. Frankly, I can't believe these drives would pass QA with this behavior. Having the heads click every 10-15 seconds is *not* normal and can't be good in the long run.
Based on the difficulties I've read in other threads with the RE4, I suspect there may be problems with the RE3 that slipped thru the cracks.
Jedi's, I need your advice.
The only reason my partners and I bought these drives is because of WD's reputation and the fact that they were on the HCL. We need this resolved so that we can put our ReadyNAS's into production with confidence.
I'd also appreciate hearing from any other users of these drives on whether you experience these issues.
Thanks everyone for your help.
--dhl
38 Replies
Replies have been turned off for this discussion
Pogo! wrote: @dhl:
> This is not the same behavior as with the ReadyNAS.
Maybe it isn't, but i wanted to confirm that this isn't (only) a problem of the ReadyNAS, but a problem of these particular WD disks with ReadyNAS or other controllers.
When having disk activity, i don't hear the clicksound. When server is not busy for a while, the clicking starts. It doesn't stop after 30 secs.
> If so, maybe the RAID controller or firmware are a factor.
I think that is true... problem is where to complain, WD or the manufacturer of the controller.
Or maybe the drives can be configured in a way not to respond to a specific command ("park yourself") they receive?
BTW: i want to contact WD about this. Do you have a call-number i can refer to?
@Pogo! - I spoke to WD technical support. the number is: 1 (800) 275-4932
They'll set up a case for you then you'll want to escalate this to a level 2 or 3 engineer as the people who first answer the phones mostly deal with simpler issues. Please report back what you find out.- @dhl:
Thanks, but i live in europe, and don't want to call. Just send them an email. This has been confirmed and filed, now lets hope to get a good answer. I'll keep you informed... - @dhl:
i managed to record my clicksound. Compared to yours, it is definitely the same sound. Please let me know if you are interested, so i can let you download this sound in Mp3 format. Pogo! wrote: @dhl:
i managed to record my clicksound. Compared to yours, it is definitely the same sound. Please let me know if you are interested, so i can let you download this sound in Mp3 format.
@Pogo! - yes, I would definitely be interested in hearing your recording. Please post the sound and let us know the URL.
I'm in San Francisco and just got back from the MacWorld 2010 expo. Western Digital had a booth there and I talked to one of the reps explaining the problem. I then had him listen to the sound which I had loaded on my iPhone. Here's his exact words to me:"I've never heard *any* of our drives make that sound before. That is definitely not right."
His theory is that the SATA controller or firmware is sending a repeating "wake-up" signal to the drives, or that the drives are not getting stable power from the power supply.
In either case, it's a problem caused by the host device, i.e. the ReadyNAS, not the drives.- @dhl:
dhl wrote: yes, I would definitely be interested in hearing your recording. Please post the sound and let us know the URL.
Here it is: http://www.zshare.net/audio/724901124203f6fe/
Sorry for the advertisements. Maybe you can download it and host it yourself.dhl wrote: ... His theory is that the SATA controller or firmware is sending a repeating "wake-up" signal to the drives, or that the drives are not getting stable power from the power supply. In either case, it's a problem caused by the host device, i.e. the ReadyNAS, not the drives.
Maybe you are right and the problem is caused by the controller or host device. But i think it is also the drive that has to react the right way to wrong signals: if it already woke up, why can't it ignore the signal? So it must be a combination of the controller and drives.
I did some investigation today: when you search for WD and clicks, you'll find a lot of people complaining about Intellipark, that is enabled by default on the WD Green series and parking every 8 secs. Our drives are not green drives, but what if.. There is a utility called "WDIDLE3.EXE" to view or change the timeout for Intellipark. I succeeded in booting DOS and viewing the status. Too bad, my drives had Intellipark disabled, i even wonder if they have that feature, but it was worth the try.
O, another thing i discovered: when i reboot my server, clicking starts when Windows is loading, probably just after driver of the controller has loaded. Before that, no clicksound. I also booted up with the Ultimate Bootdisk, which doesn't have the driver for the controller. No clicksound, even after some idletime. In my opinion, this indicates that there is a problem with the combination of the Adaptec Controller and these drives.
Lets hope WD will respond to my email with some clue. - @Pogo!
Thank you for the link. This sound is exactly the same as the sound coming from my ReadyNAS.
So I just want to confirm: This is a Win 2008 server with and Adaptec RAID controller?
And yes, if you've found that Intellipark is disabled, than that's not the problem.
It certainly looks like a bad interaction between the Adaptec RAID controller - either hardware or firmware - and the WD drives.
I'll add this info to my case. I'm also curious what kind of RAID controller the Pro Pioneer uses. The answer to that question could point to the problem source and solution.
--dhl - @dhl:
dhl wrote: So I just want to confirm: This is a Win 2008 server with and Adaptec RAID controller?
Yes. To be more specific: Intel motherboard, Adaptec 1430SA Raid Controller, 2 WD1002FBYS connected to the Adaptec controller, in RAID 1 (only 1 volume). Drives have 2 NTFS partitions, first partition is drive C: with Windows 2008 Server SP1, second partition (D:) contains my data.
I wrote in an earlier post that the clicking starts after being idle for some time. That's not true: i noticed that the clicking starts after booting up, before the login screen appears. I think it is starting just after the driver for the RAID controller is loaded.
What i tried until now:
- booting with another OS on boot CD, so the drivers of the controller are not loaded: no clicking
- attached the drives to the internal SATA connector of the mainboard, to check SMART: no SMART errors.
- ran WD Diagnostics to check the drives: no errors, drives are healthy
- looked at the Intellipark settings (not sure if these drives have Intellipark) but it is disabled, that what i want.
- updated Raid controller drivers in Windows 2008, this didn't solve the problem.
What i want to try next week:
- try another powersupply, just to be sure (because you mentioned this in an earlier post as suggested by WD)
- Install Windows 2008 R2.
I have send an email to WD, no answer until now.
I have send an email to Adaptec, they responded within one day:During normal operation the drives really shouldn't make too much noise other than when the system is powered on or rebooted.
You may want to contact Western Digital to see if they have any suggestions as you are already running the most recent driver and firmware for the Adaptec 1430SA. - More information found about the clicking sound of the WD1002FBYS:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=22-136-313&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&SelectedRating=-1&PurchaseMark=&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&Keywords=clicking&Page=1...Makes neat clicking noise.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=22-136-313&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&SelectedRating=-1&PurchaseMark=&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&Keywords=ticking&Page=1...and sometimes has a tedious repetitive ticking... The 'ticking' really annoys me. My ears perk up and I feel doom coming on when I hear a drive making an unusual noise. Reading the reviews here it appears it is normal for this drive. I guess I'll get used to it. The ticking is pretty quiet if your computer is on the floor and away from your ear (still ticking). - @Pogo!
I've read those reviews but I'm pretty sure they refer to something else. The first quote says:Pros: Makes neat clicking noise.
Cons: DoA.
Other Thoughts: Highest-End Drive WD makes and it was DoA... Does not restore confidence.
So clearly, he had a different problem. The other review says:Cons: The drive is a bit loud for my tastes, and sometimes has a tedious repetitive ticking...
which implies that it happens but not all the time. We don't know the hardware configuration of the other couple reviews, but the bottom line is that it is handful compare to the vast number of positive reviews that don't mention this problem.
This again suggests a hardware/firmware incompatibility.
I've emailed Netgear support and PMed the Jedis. I did hear back from Dooku and am awaiting more info. Have you learned any more on your end? - @dhl:
dhl wrote: Have you learned any more on your end?
Yes. I almost disassembled my server. Tried another powersupply, didn't help. Dismounted both harddrives and mounted them again, sound is somewhat different now, the clicking sounds less aggressive, due to the rubbers used for mounting the drives again.
Also installed Windows Server 2008 R2 yesterday, which is only available in 64 bits. No solution.
Have send WD a second email, now they replied.
The first reply they send was this:Please test the drives with the data Lifeguard diagnostics in order to close any other problems out.
But i did that some days ago. Too bad, you have to disconnect the drives from the raidcontroller and connect them to an internal SATA controller of the mainboard. The drives didn't fail the tests. After letting WD know that, they replied:I've discussed this problem with my colleagues and it seems that the harddrives are close to breaking down.
I'd suggest doing an RMA for the harddrives with a clicking sound and see if the replacements work better.
I don't think the drives are close to breaking down. I've sent a reply with my opinion, asking for latest firmware (mine is 0C05). They replied:I've checked our downloads section on the website and I couldn't find any firmware upgrade for you drive.
Maybe if you could register the drives on our website you could get them through Restricted Downloads.
But I'm not sure if there are any upgrades.
They didn't asked for my firmware version, and i'm sure i've seen posts with firmware 0C06 mentioned, also somebody mentioning 0C09.
I did register after that, but couldn't find firmware. Yesterday, i've asked again to look for newer firmware, mentioning the version i have now. Waiting for their reply.
I think this is the last thing to do for me. I give up. I'll wait a few months and check for newer firmware. I'm thinking about upgrading my drives within the warranty period to bigger ones, maybe SSD when they are cheaper and larger after a few years.
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