Important: NETGEAR Genie App Will No Longer Be Updated

[michaelkenward]

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@a-brittis wrote:

The Genie application for MacOS is far superior in functionality than the orbi and nighthawk apps for mobile. 

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Android too.

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@a-brittis wrote:

Nothing like replacing an application with one that has less functionality.

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Less functionality for what you and I want to do, but it seems to be a part of a move to add new router firmware with bells and whistles like Circle and Armor. Netgear removed the free Parental Controls from the apps so that they could add these services. Oh, and they removed some other features from routers, because they used up memory needed for these paying services. Unfortunately, we don't get a choice of firmware if we want to keep up to date.

[dpic444]

Why on earth would you get rid of a desktop in favor of a phone app that doesn't work well at all.  Not to mention that our phones are constantly monitored and less secure.  Why would I want to use that?  Some of us still prefer to use our PC's where we have more control and security.

And why is Genie still available for iOS?  Why one and not the other?

I will be looking for a new router (not Netgear).  It's a shame too becuase I just purchased a Netgear WiFi Extender and 8-port switch.  I guess you'll be seeing them on eBay soon.

NOT happy at all.

[Smoh]

NO SUPPORT ANY LONGER FOR PARENTAL CONTROLS - why ??  genie worked great, and you "upgrade" the app by trashing the service and leaving us with a $%^&ty app.  Last purchase from me. 

[michaelkenward]

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@Smoh wrote:

NO SUPPORT ANY LONGER FOR PARENTAL CONTROLS - why ??  genie worked great, and you "upgrade" the app by trashing the service and leaving us with a $%^&ty app.  Last purchase from me. 

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Use a browser. That still works. Many people prefer it.

Start here:

https://netgear.opendns.com/sign_in.php

Or the desktop genie.

[Nillabraz]

desktop genie is officially dead 

[michaelkenward]

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@Nillabraz wrote:

desktop genie is officially dead 

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Where did you read that?

This discussion is about the mobile app version for Androids and iOS.

The desktop software for Windows and Macs is here:

genie Landing Page | Apps | Discover | Home | NETGEAR

The latest minor update for that was sometime in the middle of last year.

[Smoh]

that link redirects to a nighthawk landing page, sadly genie is nowhere to be downloaded on an updated system, bummer, since it did have really nice parental controls that are nowhere to be found in nighthawk

[schumaku]

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@Smoh wrote:

that link redirects to a nighthawk landing page,

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No, this is just a pop-up - there is a [X] top right to close it...

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@Smoh wrote:

sadly genie is nowhere to be downloaded on an updated system, bummer, since it did have really nice parental controls that are nowhere to be found in nighthawk

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...it's on the page below the pop-up, near to the end as "DOWNLOAD PC" and "DOWNLOAD Mac".

[Smoh]

yes, for me those downloads are for nighthawk, not genie

[schumaku]

Read my reply again - line by line.

[Smoh]

thanks for the helpful reply, i re-read, and the download links you mentioned after dropping the pop up still don't work, are you are referring to me being in the wrong thread ?  genie android app and genie on osx had great parental controls is all, if you have a cool way to install them i'd love to hear, but the links you pointed to don't allow a genie download for me.

[schumaku]

Sorry @Smoh  ... bad explanation probably. let's try with pictures.

Better now?

[Joost-99]

For many years I have worked with the Genie Android app to set parental controls for individual devices on the network. The Nighthawk app doesn't allow this, neither does the opendns website you can log on to from the router Admin pages. You can't set individual devices' control levels in any other way (maybe desktop Genie allows it, but am using Linux). The latest Genie app from Playstore v3.1.78 doesn't allow you to connect. It says router software doesn't support Genie, switch to Nighthawk, and it just refuses to connect. But imho it's the app that simply shows a popup and blocks the connection. However v3.1.74 of the Genie app for Android still just works as it did before (tested on router R6220 firmware level 1.1.0.86). I't still available on e.g. APKmirror.com search for "netgear genie" and make sure you don't upgrade the app to v3.1.78 (switch off automatic upgrade in the play store for this app).

So it's possible to keep the old setup working. I can understand Genie cannot be maintained eternally. But if Netgear would just make it easier for users to keep the latest apps working and easily available and point users in the right direction, instead of making it pretty akward like they do now, they would raise their esteem considerably. I spent way more time on this than I would have liked, and it's a complete waste of time. Netgear I expect you to do a better job. You make good gear but don't disappoint your customers because they will not buy your products again. Just "update" the Genie app on Playstore back to the 3.1.74 version.

[schumaku]

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@Joost-99 wrote:

The Nighthawk app doesn't allow this, neither does the opendns website you can log on to from the router Admin pages. You can't set individual devices' control levels in any other way (maybe desktop Genie allows it, but am using Linux).

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This is perfectly right. Also the bypass capability isn't available without the App... And no, the Genie Desktop doen't have these controls by device, too.

[Smoh]

This exactly!

[Samedh]

I'm not surprised that Netgear has started pushing users toward the Nighthawk App. I am surprised at how pooly this new app performs, and the fact that they are not providing any updates to Genie, for either Mac or Windows. I have two of the R8000 routers installed in my home, and probably another 50 odd Netgear routers that I have installed and manage for customers. All of those routers are in a business setting, some in large enterprise networks. They are all, without exception, managed from a desktop installation of Genie, within the company.

How are those going to continue to be supported? None of those customers even want to think about having to deal with adding a phone to the network, with a new app to manage the routers, especially when that app is potentially destructive, does not work as wel as the desktop app, and pushes through changes to the router settings without asking the user?

As an example, I have purposely not enabled the new Armor Security option on any of the routers that I manage or the ones in my home. I'm trying to maintain my home routers in the same condition as about 12 or so that I've installed for customers. Today, simply launching the Nighthawk app, and attaching to either of my home routers, the Armor Security option was enabled, and I was automatically started on a trial of the services. I did not want this, I did not request it, and now I have a hundred new notifications that I have to go through and evaluate related to network security.

Is Netgear going to activate Armor for all my client routers as well? Without their approval?

I realize this is a new source of revenue for Netgear, but as it affects network security, you should not be doing this without their approval. Just because you are seeing dollar signs, does not mean you can "opt in" your customers to a new service they are going to have to opt out of anyway.

[Smoh]

Thanks for this,

NO IDEA how they think this is good customer policy... and indeed, I just got rid of my netgear router and switched to google wifi, which has amazing granular controls of security policy.  

[Samedh]

@Joost-99 

Thank you! IT is exactly as you said it... Netgear are hurting their image with their current established customer base, something you never ever want to do. We are the ones that already have plenty of incentive to but from them, are refer others to them. By forcing the Nighthawk App down our throats, and artificially forcing Genie to stop working with our routers... that's just nuts. They should display a HUGE warning, if you upgrade your router firmware, we have inserted a flag that forces Genie to stop working! If you use Genie, do not upgrade!

And thank you @Joost-99 for doing the research and verifying that version v3.1.74 of the Genie app for Android still just works as it did before, and I tested it on the latest firmware for the R8000 routers - v1.0.4.66_10.1.75. I have now tested v3.1.74 on both my R8000 routers, and it works. However it appears that Netgear have hidden the settings for "Armor" completely, they do not show up in any of the normal settings tabs either in Genie or via login directly to the router from a browser. This seems to indicate that they are not even using the standard development path, and only adding new "features" to the Nighthawk App. Yes, Netgear, it will save you development dollars, but it is going to cost you in established customers.

Let me state that a little more clearly - I will begin buying and replacing all of the routers that I manage through my business clients, if Netgear does not cease this haphazard and ill-conceived development path, attempting to force customers to use the Nighthawk App by only making new features available through that app. I don't want to do this, Netgear, I have to do this if you continue. I owe it to my customers, as part of my contractual due-diligence. I am under contract to remove equipment that I do not believe will be serviceable and maintainable into the near future, as soon as I possibly can. As much as I have loved Netgear equipment, drivers and interfaces, it appears that is all changing.

If this truly is the new direction of the company, I'm going to have to replace all those routers with another vendor.

EDIT: ignored spell checking, at my own peril 🙂

[Samedh]

@schumaku thanks for the helpful pictures 🙂 I did follow you, and was able to download the latest version of Genie for Windows 10.

When I try to go to the link you show in your screenshot, netgear.com/home/discovery/apps/genie.aspx, I am instead redirected to;

Yeah, the Nighthawk app. If you check all the normal repositories, the tried-and-true websites that used to carry multiple old versions of the Genie app (Major Geeks used to maintain several older versions, with mirrors), they are all gone. Netgear is going full out to get rid of all other copies, and the new copies when installed, tell you that you need to download Nighthawk to access those features. I made the mistake of updating the Genie app on my Samsung - the old version worked perfectly fine with the new version of the firmware. After the update, I get a message that I have to use Nighthawk, and that Genie is no longer supported.

I used the instructions from @Joost-99 and was able to install a working version of Genie on my phone - I will not be making the mistake of upgrading it again 🙂

[schumaku]

@Samedh Netgear is updating the local Web pages - https://www.netgear.co.uk/home/discover/apps/genie.aspx is still "old".

[Samedh]

@schumaku , it still amazes me that Netgear would roll out Nighthawk, the app, with less capability and speed than Genie. NOT dissing on Nighthawk, it has a lot of promise, and I was excited to try it out... the first thing I noticed was that every single use of the app led to a loooong wait while the router responded. A wait that was not there either logged directly in to the router locally, or via Genie. Genie handily and very helpfully for those familiar with the way settings are stored and accessed through the web interface, echoes that layout. Nighthawk does not. Even after getting used to where things were within Nighthawk, I felt strongly that there was no compelling use case.

Which in turn made the removal/deprecating of Genie appear to be a lever by which Netgear were attempting to force their customers to switch to Nighthawk. Right or wrong, from the number of complaints on the community pages and feedback on the Nighthawk app in the Play store, it is being interpreted poorly. And as I mentioned in my questions to Support, there is a vanishingly small chance that I can ever convince my clients to switch over to a new mobile app. They would bring up Genie, I would have to tell them that Netgear had updated Genie so it no longer worked with routers that it had prior to the update, at which point they'll tell me they do not trust Netgear any longer, and ask me why I had suggested them in the first place.

At which point I'll have to tell them that Netgear appears to be pursuing profit, at any cost. End-stage late capitalism, in decline. I'm dearly hoping Netgear decide to follow the UK and maintain Genie. I truly do not look forward to having to replace all those Netgear routers.

At the very least, make the Nighthawk developers study Genie. At the very bare-bones minimum, they have to match Nighthawk in performance and capabilities. They still have a ways to go before they do 🙂

[schumaku]

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@Samedh wrote:

@schumaku , it still amazes me that Netgear would roll out Nighthawk, the app, with less capability and speed than Genie.

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Genie - certainly the desktop version - was a massive overkill in features, obvious, and less obvious ones like the built-in (cumbersome, as changing the ID on every start again) DLNA server for example.

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@Samedh wrote:

NOT dissing on Nighthawk, it has a lot of promise, and I was excited to try it out... the first thing I noticed was that every single use of the app led to a loooong wait while the router responded. A wait that was not there either logged directly in to the router locally, or via Genie.

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The Netgear Nighthawk App was born as a discovery and basic config App,named "Netgear Up!" the discovery part, and even more environment testing was added, .... can't say the wait is to long, two to three second from a cold start for me. When I remember right (have no mode Genie App supported routers at hand), both desktop Genie and the App went out and connected to the previously detected IP address. The "classic" Genie web interface looks like a 1995 design - in 2021 ist more a nightmare than something for easy management.

Convinced Netgear had plans and ideas for a bottom-up revision of the standard "Genie" Web UI - and the App does reflect something new?

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@Samedh wrote:

Genie handily and very helpfully for those familiar with the way settings are stored and accessed through the web interface, echoes that layout. Nighthawk does not. Even after getting used to where things were within Nighthawk, I felt strongly that there was no compelling use case.

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The original product manager for Genie (he is from time to time here in the community) is certainly happy to read this.

Hey the "no compelling use case" is a little bit hard - most features are very handy. 

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@Samedh wrote:

Which in turn made the removal/deprecating of Genie appear to be a lever by which Netgear were attempting to force their customers to switch to Nighthawk. Right or wrong, from the number of complaints on the community pages and feedback on the Nighthawk app in the Play store, it is being interpreted poorly.

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The complaints - I'm not Netgear - are coming from various factors. It happened much more at that than just the change of the App. Certainly useful app features disappeared, the complete OpenDNS based Live Parental Control disappeared at the same time, the basic support for wireless extenders was lost, ... and many more. 

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@Samedh wrote:

At the very least, make the Nighthawk developers study Genie. At the very bare-bones minimum, they have to match Nighthawk in performance and capabilities. They still have a ways to go before they do 🙂

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Keeping the very basic features out of sight (hard to disagree), where else - except on the initial connection - is there a performance issue please?

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Today, on the Nighthak App 2.8.0.1295 (on Android 11) while connected to the R9000 and tapping the Traffic Meter, there was a "Connecting to Airship Armor" on an otherwise white page (Note: R9000 does not have any Armor support - can't tell you how happy I am with that) and redirecting to the Traffic Meter view finally.

[Samedh]

@schumaku -

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@Samedh wrote:

NOT dissing on Nighthawk, it has a lot of promise, and I was excited to try it out... the first thing I noticed was that every single use of the app led to a loooong wait while the router responded. A wait that was not there either logged directly in to the router locally, or via Genie.

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The Netgear Nighthawk App was born as a discovery and basic config App,named "Netgear Up!" the discovery part, and even more environment testing was added, .... can't say the wait is to long, two to three second from a cold start for me. When I remember right (have no mode Genie App supported routers at hand), both desktop Genie and the App went out and connected to the previously detected IP address. The "classic" Genie web interface looks like a 1995 design - in 2021 its more a nightmare than something for easy management.

Convinced Netgear had plans and ideas for a bottom-up revision of the standard "Genie" Web UI - and the App does reflect something new?

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 Remember, I'm talking about corporate and small business installations here. I don't know how many routers Netgear normally sells to this market segment, but I'm sure you're familiar. They want one solution that continues to do what it was intended to do, and question every single change/upgrade/update. If the reason for the change ($Cost$ to them) is not compelling, it does not get approved.

As long as the 1995 design interface is not customer facing, they are perfectly fine with it - as long as it works and does not cost them extra in training/learning curve. If it's customer facing? Completely different.

I have not heard a single complaint about the changes to Genie over the last few years. It's still the same basic interface, used in the same basic way. Everything that did change, changed in intuitive ways - it did not require searching or frustrating dead ends and lost time. And it runs on a PC, further maximizing the value of an already purchased capital asset.

Nighthawk brings new capital equipment, training, support, provisioning and security questions. Adding cell phones for employees that never leave the building, to run a new version of an app that ran on a PC in the last update... I cannot sell them on the idea.

The original product manager for Genie (he is from time to time here in the community) is certainly happy to read this.

Hey the "no compelling use case" is a little bit hard - most features are very handy. 

I did not mean it that way 🙂 Let me clarify. When I said there was no compelling use case for the Nighthawk app, I'm referring to use in a business/corporate setting. To sell them on the idea that we need to upgrade their routers firmware, with a caveat that their normal program for this, Genie PC version, no longer works. They will have to use a new program, on a completely different piece of equipment, which they have to buy, provision, add to their network, and issue to an employee. They'll have to either have the phone remain at the company, or issue more than one to have better coverage, more than one person that can deal with requests, etc. If it's a larger company, they'll have 2 or 3 people trained, a couple extra phones set up to perform the work. All of which translates to extra costs.

If Nighthawk is replacing Genie now, it was planned out a couple of years ago, correct? A roadmap for the development should have been published, and customers informed and given a final version of Genie that would only receive updates for security related changes. No new features would be added, as it was considered 'end-of-life'.

The way that this has been handled is too open to interpretation. Customers are likely to get the wrong impression. Nighthawk is a visually pleasing app, and it definitely feeds that need for new, better, slicker [insert product here] that most gamers have in abundance. I think, just my thoughts here, that part of the problem is this can be interpreted as a move we are all too used to here in the US; Company wants to increase profitability. Company underfunds development, demands better performance from already underfunded departments, and these additional demands cause mid-level management to make cuts. Genie suddenly appears to stop working, immediately after a router firmware update, and customers are told to switch to Nighthawk. However, Nighthawk development was underfunded, so this is happening a version or two early.

Unfortunately, the timing on all these moving pieces could not be worse, and customers that would normally be open to the changes, are stuck at home, probably limited direct contact with friends, and gaming has become a treasured luxury, and a comfort right now when a lot of our comforts are gone. They've lost friends or family members. Or like myself, had COVID, recovered, but lost 30% of their lung capacity. They're moving through all this mess as best they can, but they fall back on the same conservative (monetarily!) mindset they face at work. No new expenses unless absolutely necessary.

Best way to deal with it? Give Genie a bit of time, have that wonderful developer you mentioned perform a thourough sweep thru it, dealing with any security or performanmce issues, and tested working with the latest firmware. Release a new (bugfix/performance/security update) version of Nighthawk, with the clearly noted final update of Genie. Let folks know that all new features will be supported in Nighthawk, and that Genie is now end of life. As such only security issues will be updated for the app.

I think another thing contributing to the reaction, at least here in the US - we just had 4 years of many many wrenching and upsetting changes, with little or no warning notice. We dont like it. The liklihood that we will think something nefarious is going on is directly proportional to the nefarious destruction we've been forced to be witnesses to, here at home. Nighthawk is going to be fine - if they get stuck, have them contact the Genie developer. He does awesome work.

Mike

[Ughbug27]

orphaned app for orphaned router 

[Ughbug27]

This is the Harvard business school approach to American business and what has screwed us into the ground

As my old man an MIT trained engineer are used to say "this my son is an abomination,"pointing to a 1 foot cord attached to a power drill. "it used to be that every power tool would come with at least a 6 foot cord attached to it but not anymore. Jesus, what a bunch of shortsighted assholes!  This is an example of the Harvard business school approach to adding profitability to a product line. Total BS."

and as he would say, "The beat goes on!"

We have marketing morons running the engineering departments in America!