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I am 68 and computer electronics, read the F---- manuals smart guy with a rural since 1994 dial up internet home network I am IT?NOC guy for. Current WORKING system is Linksys based. But over time the upgrades drove me to web based GUIS I don't have faith in. They don't seem to work well with a ISP outage. ISPs...mostly rural do not and basically can not communicate with customers when THEIR side is down. Thus when there is a problem I always need a way to explore MY complicated network and determine if local area or WAN fault.
Did mention I am retired Army, fixed income and know I should invest in Enterprise level CISCO based solutions...Too bad I am ultra frugal...grin. Not considering a Linksys solution, I had to fuss between NetGear and ASUS new network devices. Along came Amazon with very good prices for refurbished items. My past high dollar refurbished electronics (always buy the Asurion warranty for cheap) has been worth my while. So NetGear got the nod for 2 NightHawk R8000, 1 EX8000 on the cheap.
So next month May 2022, my ISP (30Mbps down @$100) is dead and contract for NextLink rural broad band starts with a 100Mbps down @$120.
My current 2.5 acre micro ranch has main house in center of square (480' X 520') with several out buildings, 2 are occupied, but ALL metal (essentially Faraday caged). We have a very good electronic front gate 125' from main house and a BUNCH of Wyze based indoor and our door cameras all 2.4 Ghz.
And as a large ranch house has a variety of vacuums robots(5) switches, bulbs, thermostat, plugs (42 devices IOT) to manage via network and ALEXA.
Surprisingly I have been able to keep up...Old guys can relate...humor cuz this is getting long
The Shops WE work in daily, both have Cat5e burial run in trees to the 150'+ distant metal buildings. I have new Cat7 high grade outdoor Ethernet cable to run to both shops. Right now the devices inside the shops live OK with the reduced bandwidth for internet and HD Roku streaming.
2 adult Empty nest home W/ occasionally adult kids or guests, so guest network assess required. no young kids so parental controls are not needed.
Part of my NOC / ISP desires is to try to prepare for 4K streaming and newer and newer IOT devices that can exploit 5 or 6 Ghz
OK that's the topography so why the title of this thread?
I am exceedingly distressed with much of my discovery these last three months reading ALL the user forums and my discussion with the paid for Gear Heads support guy(s)
WTF Netgear ? Over 30 firmware updates and most Forum Gurus are always suggesting to back out to FW from 2020
Geni App not supported but Nighthawk app not ready fore actual NOC IT duties...Un acceptable
Any one want to buy $600 worth of devices while I rethink my new network hardware
OK some one of you Gurus talks me OFF the Ledge cuz I have nearly read every post on my boxed products back to 2019 and really not interested in starting a NEW network with all the notes I have accumulated
Win10 pro on 6 CPUs , High end 4K ROKU, High end Denon 7.2 eARC capable AV SYSTEM. Total cord cutter
I am OK with brand loyal opinions...why else would you be reading this crap
But if you have a legit Idea that some other brand is more ready for prime time...please opine...at this point my only real modus is bang for the buck and easy of true NOC / IT control
I already know I am hosed with NetGear because no support for Genie and I do NOT want MY NOC on a Android tablet or smart phone.
I have not tried using Nighthawk routers in AP mode with an app, but I do know that I can use an app to control an Orbi router in AP mode.
I can also control more than one router on separate Internet account by enabling remote management and using Anywhere Access.
Again, you may have landed yourself with extra problems through your choice of devices. Using purpose built APs rather than repurposed routers might have been better.
I suspect that other brands will land you in the some territory.
i'm not a 100% netgear diehard. I like their equipment but the firmware has been getting harder and harder to believe in. The subscription model for added features bothers me quite a bit. I feel like some of these should be included like other consumer brands do.
But with that said, the firmware has been sketchy for quite a while with most all consumer gear. I've had flagship devices from both tp-link and linksys that struggled. One of the devices I tried (and still have) was a flagship device and still didn't get a single firmware update. (and not because there wasn't issues).
So while I'll say netgears firmware has issues, at least there is still updates to it. For example, the R7000 was released in 2013 and is still getting updates. Its had its own share of firmware issues but at least its still being worked on.
The R8000 was released the year after in 2014. So its 8 year old equipment that still getting updates (I know there's something in the works for dns issues).
So am I diehard Netgear? No. If I find equipment I like that works well, thats what I go with. But so far, I've managed to keep my setup working even if I might have to use a little older firmware once in a while.
Sir I have read at least 200 of your advice so I deeply appreciate your opinions.
Perhaps with some more personal info you might feel comfortable directing me...at least with hints on where to google or explore.
I started my rural life with ATT dial up on d-link and later linksys WRT modems. Learned how to tweak internals to get reliable 256Kbps on voice twisted pair...frustrating in 1996~7 when urban families sent photo laden e-mails...bet you can relate.
My job after enlisted army was Operational Test Command Fort Hood as a test officer for enterprise software systems...Ironic as it were with a heavy aircraft maintenance background.
That said in the Army I was an anomaly in the early 80s because I was a computer building nerd with my own BBC. I could build a better Dos based computer for friends that the radio shack TRS 80 crap.
Command took notice and sent me to several schools...mostly to manage Intel 380 mini computers on Zenix OS for the Ft Eustice aviation school house.
Thus I was DOS 1.1 and Unix/Zenix/COBAL/FORTRAN versant much to the chagrin to any Army IT managment folk...me a lowly staff sergeant
A terrible amount of words to say I pretty much know about technology and security.
I am very pissed that today there is not a home turn key ISP WAN to complicated LAN set of management software and hardware for the typical dummy (that I am not)
Each system I explored has some fatal flaw. NetGear product sales seem to omit the flaws (I get it...sales) and I screwed up NOT finding this forum until I had $880 in product on hand.
The more I read the less confident I am to establish a home network I can see ENTIRELY and manage with the software tools provided..IE Genie/NightHawk app....and I am incensed that there is NOT a usable Win 10/11 Network managment GUI
Thanks for reading.....back to my weekly system backups
We don't need to read your life experience. If you have problems, post a detailed description and technical info like firmware version, what you tried so far, etc
Fair enough. My rant is too long and my frustration masked that I have a 2011 LinkSys network that works. I am getting a new ISP soon with 100Mbps down and over last several years we have accumulated more and more IOT stuff and newer laptops/PCs. I bought NetGear devices NOT NOW set up to replace my LAN in next 60 days. In preparation for the new deployment I have tried to read Every thread about this Gear on Tom's Guide and here.
Due to the refurbished nature of two devices
I have bought, with GearHead 6 months support plan: R8000----4MRE0878A1FC6 refurb R8000----4MRF097LA2F78 new but mid 2021 purchase EX8000---5001815K01BE8 Refurb
With out looking I know they do NOT have latest firmware.
I want to log into each and do the following: 1. Update firmware I have already downloaded to my desktop 2. Change device admin password to something unique for each of the 3 3. Change the SSID of each radio and assign WEP3 passwords 4. Disable WPS 5. Enable Guest and assign a password 6. Save copy of each configuration file
I prefer to disconnect the desktop from my network and attach to each new device with Cat6.
I have a Win 10Pro 64bit desktop with USB dual band WIFI dongle and internal Real Tech Ethernet port.
My initial attempts to do this fail trying 192.168.1.1 or 1.2
I have a registered Android app for Nighthawk. It needs to see the new routers on the internet
GearHeads tell me I must connect each device to the modem directly to access the device.
There is not a device or setup specific question. There is frustration that the App and each device has a LOT of problem questions here that you guys have been answering for many years now.
I am questioning the wisdom of selecting this Brand and my frugal choices. It seems before I even deploy, I have to scan all my notes to set the firmware to something other than most current. And it seems any choices between bridge or AP mode limit the ability for Nighthawk App to see or manage the entire network.
I have bought, with GearHead 6 months support plan: R8000----4MRE0878A1FC6 refurb R8000----4MRF097LA2F78 new but mid 2021 purchase EX8000---5001815K01BE8 Refurb
As I suspected from the footer to your earlier messages, you may have set yourself up for trouble.
Do you have two R8000s on one network?
That is a bad set up. It means you have two competing with each other.
Two routers on your network can cause headaches. For example, you can end up with local address problems. Among other things, the other router can misdirect addresses that the Netgear router usually handles, such as routerlogin.net or the usual IP address for a router, 192.168.1.1.
Unless you have specific reasons for using two routers, it is often easier to use just one router and then to set up the second router as a wifi access point. Netgear advises this, as does just about every site you will visit.
I want to log into each and do the following: 1. Update firmware I have already downloaded to my desktop 2. Change device admin password to something unique for each of the 3 3. Change the SSID of each radio and assign WEP3 passwords 4. Disable WPS 5. Enable Guest and assign a password 6. Save copy of each configuration file
You will not be able to do those things with two routers.That's the "NAT" issue.
You can deal with the first problem, the firmware, one router at a time. You do not need an Internet connection to update firmware, just download the new version and update the firmware manually.
I do not understand why you have come to that conclusion. You are trying to configure these devices in an incompatible way that the Nighthawk app was not designed to handle.
You van use two R8000 routers on the network, but you have to set them up correctly. The app can't manage that. It is designed to make it easy to set up simple networks that use the routers as designed.
To use two, you can put one of them into access point mode. You need to do that with a wired connection to the router. But do that and you lose some of the features on one of the routers:
That has nothing to do with Netgear's devices. All routers work in the same way and will hit the same brick wall.
There may be other issues on your network. For example, you haven't said what the modem/gateway is that connects you to the Internet. If that is also a router – many are – you are simply adding to the problems.
And it seems any choices between bridge or AP mode limit the ability for Nighthawk App to see or manage the entire network.
Again, you are trying to use the app to do something that it was not designed for. But you can manage both routers by tracking down their IP addresses – there are various ways of doing that – and using a browser to connect to the IP address of the device that you want to manage.
You can certainly create a network with your devices, although a bit more thought in advance might have led you to make different hardware choices.
I sincerely appreciate alll the time it took to send this advise.
Yes I know in my haste the twin R8000s were/might be a mistake
MY topology envisioned has main house fed with full capabilities of a R8000
The 2 Faraday cage 100% metal buildings will have Cat7 direct burial expensive 150+ foot runs...
Wife's Hobby shop has minimal High Bandwidth needs for her Quilting machines and one Low tech Smart Roku TV-- Planning EX8000 in that shop as AP
My 100% Metal is where I really spend 8~14 hours per day and want as my NOC with very high end computer, High end 4K TV, and three monitor array, NAS to share in the network.
Also several apps managing the property camera security systems, many connected in main ranch house on 2.4Ghz
WAS planning the second R8000 om my shop Cat7 back haul bridge or AP mode and your answer tells me either is a mistake for how I want to use my Apps for a total NOC
I suspect if I ran the NOC in the main house this would be doable BUT I cherish my time in MY man Cave
The Rural broad band ISP is a Motorola High Power point to point radio/MODEM 30' up my 40' Ham tower to a 6 mile away tower it is POe giving me a single Ethernet connection to MY user provided switches or routers. It would be about 200' Cat7 Run from the tower to my shop (doable with what I have on hand)...But ISP engineers doubts their POe injection dongle won't over heat trying to power the radio/ MODEM over that distance no matter how well the CAT7 is constructed 24 Gage copper vs typical 26 gage copper
My 300' away electronic gate has a video doorbell w/gate code key pad and can be 2.4 or 5 Ghz... To reduce 2.4 loads for all the IOT crap in the main house R8000 I have an out door dual band (illegal power level) I plan to set up in AP mode only for the 5Ghz connection to the Gate I will be POe Cat7 connected to a gigbit port on the R8000
We do not game
Should I sell the second R800 and get something different for MY shop?
I did not get a warm fuzzy that a second EX8000 would do what I want
WAS planning the second R8000 om my shop Cat7 back haul bridge or AP mode and your answer tells me either is a mistake for how I want to use my Apps for a total NOC
So, there are three places where you want Internet, the house, the man-cave and the workshop.
You haven't said what now delivers the Internet on the house. But here's one possibility.
Use one R8000 in the house connected to whatever delivers the Internet from the ISP.
Run Cat 7 from the house into the man cave.
Put the second, man-cave, R8000 into AP mode. It should handle all of the toys you plan to use, as long as there's enough bandwidth from your Internet service provider. Sounds like most of it can be wired, so wifi isn't going to be crucial.
Run Cat 7 cable from there to the wife's workshop. Use the EX8000 in AP mode there. If she doesn't need wifi, then just by cheap switch.
Alternatively, depending on where the Internet comes into the house, put the main R8000 in the cave with a connection to whatever delivers the Internet from the ISP in the house. Then cable the cave R8000 to the AP R8000 in the house.
But this is where the problems could arise:
My 300' away electronic gate has a video doorbell w/gate code key pad and can be 2.4 or 5 Ghz... To reduce 2.4 loads for all the IOT crap in the main house R8000 I have an out door dual band (illegal power level) I plan to set up in AP mode only for the 5Ghz connection to the Gate I will be POe Cat7 connected to a gigbit port on the R8000
In general you are talking about pushing wired Ethernet and wifi to the distance limits. The 300 feet to the electronic gate is stretching it for wifi, especially 5 GHz.
Looking at these distances, I wonder if you are trying to use mid range domestic network kit to its limits. For a start your radio Internet isn't typical. You have long runs of cables connecting various bits of kit around the estate.
Sounds like you have an interesting project in your hands.
Some additional info. I can see %ghz from currenty linksys very old dual band nearly to the gate but 2.4 is steady and reliable. The Off brand Outdoor device strongly suggests that it's radios on 2 and 5 are (with the high gain onmi antennas technicall in violation of FCC power limits and absolutely not to be used near weather radar at airports....not an issue for me in my location. However this device has no GUI provision to reduce ERP to only what I need for reliable 5Ghz to the gate..IE all or nothing. My current analyzer surveys suggest all of my neighbors are defaulted to 2.4 ch 11 and 3 locked. Thus no 5ghz is evident except my network so I am confident the high ERP won't interfere with my low tech OLD neighbors...yet...
Based on my current and future ISP being Broad band UP MY Tower 30' 30Mbps down right now, 100Mbps next month I am not going to fuss with the provider engineers to try POe over 200+ foot to MY shop.
The real issue is The House R8000 feeding 2 end points with Cat 7 for back haul to the world----- and in The house, most all of the stupid IOT devices live on 2.4ghz, most WiFi only ...talking bulbs, switches, vacuum robots, indoor and outside cameras, a Thermostat, and too many Alexa snoopers.
I can deploy the WavLink out door 2 Band either from above the house or off My Man cave shop ....either way POe to an Ethernet port to the world. And for the singular front gate device, on 5GHz I think setting it with discreet SSID Name and password in AP MODE IS BEST.
Again I think I know how to cobble this all in a Managed network, I just can't seen to determine the BEST way to do it within NetGear Nighthawks Android APP (I do not want to use) or the OLD Genie App to have an all inclusive network NOC in My man cave
Again...Very state of the art NUC, lots of CPU power, Lots of fast memory, Multiple Terabytes of HDD and SSD drive storage, Thunderbolt 3 big 27 inch curved monitors, I do not game.
I already know I am hosed with NetGear because no support for Genie and I do NOT want MY NOC on a Android tablet or smart phone.
I already know I am hosed with NetGear because no support for Genie and I do NOT want MY NOC on a Android tablet or smart phone.
I have not tried using Nighthawk routers in AP mode with an app, but I do know that I can use an app to control an Orbi router in AP mode.
I can also control more than one router on separate Internet account by enabling remote management and using Anywhere Access.
Again, you may have landed yourself with extra problems through your choice of devices. Using purpose built APs rather than repurposed routers might have been better.
I suspect that other brands will land you in the some territory.
