ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

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tony359 wrote:

I guess the snapshot can only be activated on the whole share, not on single folders?

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Correct.

Note that BTRFS is storing deltas, so the on-disk space usage depends on how much you change (and how you change it).  

The method is linked to BTRFS "copy on write".  When the file system rewrites a block in a file, the original block is kept.  The snapshot still uses the original blocks, the main share is using the updated one.  Note that this means the file in the main share is fragmented. 

However, many programs (for instance MS office) will just write out the entire file when you change it.  So in that scenario, all the original blocks end up in the snapshot, and the file in the main share is only the new ones.

Anyway, I suggest custom snapshots.  I limit them to 3 months retention, which keeps the total disk space used for snapshots pretty low.  So you could start there, and then adjust retention on the share to keep the snapshot use reasonable (IMO less than 10% of the volume).

If you want to see snapshot use per share, you do need to enable volume quota from the volume settings wheel.

I forgot to thank you 🙂

The NAS - finger crossed - is still online. But it's happened before so who knows! 🙂

I have a question about the snapshots: I don't understand the attached graphic. What does it mean when I enable specific hours for a snapshot? 

Does that mean the snapshot is only created during that time? So if I modify a file outside of that schedule the change won't end up in a shapshop?

Apologies for the silly question. I have checked on the manual but it's still not clear to me.

Thanks

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tony359 wrote:

 

Does that mean the snapshot is only created during that time? 

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Yes.

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tony359 wrote:

So if I modify a file outside of that schedule the change won't end up in a shapshop?

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No, not exactly.

The snapshot captures the entire state of the share when it is taken.  So files modified after a snapshot is taken will still show up in the next one.

But if you were to create a file and then accidentally delete it in between snapshots, then you wouldn't be able to get the original back - since the original file wouldn't have gotten into a snapshot yet.

If you set the schedule to take snapshots all the time (e.g., solid blue), then I suggest also using the option to only take snapshots if there have been changes in the share since the last one.  That will reduce a lot of clutter.  

Also, I don't set the "allow snapshot access" option, only the "allow access to windows previous versions".  The reason is that snapshots are read-only if you don't set "allow snapshot access", but Netgear sets them to read-write if you do check it.  Since IMO the purpose of the snapshots is to protect me from user error and perhaps malware, I don't want the snapshots to be writeable from Windows.

Thanks, I think I understand - but one thing 🙂

Say I set the snapshot ON at 2pm, the NAS will create a snapshop then. 

What happens if I set the snapshot all the time (without selecting to only take snapshot when changes are made)? Does the NAS create a snapshot and when done it creates another one and so on?

How long does it take for the NAS to create a snapshot?

I think daily snapshots would work for me. Overnight is probably a good option. Do I check one of those blocks at - say - 2am to make that happen?

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tony359 wrote:

 

What happens if I set the snapshot all the time (without selecting to only take snapshot when changes are made)? Does the NAS create a snapshot and when done it creates another one and so on?

 

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The custom snapshots are scheduled at most once an hour.  So you'd get one every hour.  

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tony359 wrote:

 

I think daily snapshots would work for me. Overnight is probably a good option. Do I check one of those blocks at - say - 2am to make that happen?

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Yes.

Thanks Sir as usual 🙂

Now finger crossed. 

The thing you need to know about snapshots is that they don't copy the file content, so they are very fast and efficient.  What they copy is essentially the directory entries and file allocations and they keep sectors of the drive that contain them from being re-allocated for the life of any snapshot using them (until those snapshots are deleted).  So a snapshot of a share that has not changed doesn't really take up space.  But it is one more snapshot added to the list when you go to restore.  On shares with a lot of "churn", more snapshots will take up space much more than those without.  Also, since defrag moves sectors around, it and snapshots together can also end up using more space, again especially on shares with a lot of "churn" (which are the ones that typically benefit the most from defrag).  The snapshots will retain the old file layout, so defrag won't free any space but will take up new space.

Thanks Sandshark 

I stumbled into some 4GB dimms and thinking of upgrading to 8GB. I know the Pro6 is fussy about that but these are 2RX8 modules and were mentioned on another thread as working fine. Attached.

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Using-your-ReadyNAS-in-Business/RNDP6000-100-CPU-RAM-upgrade-suggestions/m-p/2170574

Could anybody maybe confirm these would work on my Pro6?

Thanks!

They should work.

Thanks Sandshark 

The RAM works, the system sees 8GB in the BIOS and it's booting fine.

I've started the integrated memtest and having the monitor still connected I can see the output.

It is normal that it says "memory 2056G"? See attached. Wondering whether I should use the latest memtest on a USB stick!

Well after two passes I booted the NAS from the latest memtest and ran two more passes there. The latest version correctly reported 8GB of RAM.

All seems to be good. The NAS has been up for 11 days now and no issues so far. Still running with external PSU. Finger crossed. 

It's with great sorrow that I report that the NAS "crashed" again today. This time I could not ping it from the other network. LCD was unresponsive. When USB keyboard was plugged in, the keyboard was dead - no caps lock, num lock. 

I had to power cycle. 

Just the other day I finished transferring the bulk of the data and just yesterday I put away the HDDs I had on the floor with the temporary RAID. 

I hadn't installed anything on the NAS - I wanted to make sure it was stable first.

I'm not a log expert but not much I can see from them. It stopped around 11am this morning. 

I kind of suspected that to be honest. This is either

1. A HW fault with Motherboard or CPU. I still have the old CPU I could try - though CPU failures are rare. 

2. This is new RAM so not RAM. I tested it, it passed 4 full cycles. 

3. A software bug - I guess not many have the Pro6 still running

4. Could it be something with my data? I doubt it but I am thinking aloud. 

I know the next step is to replace the NAS. I have been keeping an eye for a replacement, it's just some money I am not prepared to spend at the moment. 

I also know this thread has been going on for months so I'm not sure what else you can recommend. 

Happy to share logs if helpful. 

#NeedaHug

Going back to the original CPU is worth a try.  While CPU failure is rare (especially when not catastrophic that prevents booting), but you are using a "unsupported" CPU.

There are, I believe, actually a lot of Pro6 units still in use since the conversion to OS6 is available.  I was running them as my backup before I switched to 12-bay rack-mount units.  But probably not many with your choice of CPU, but many of mine were running a faster processor -- up to an E7500.

I can try the CPU but I'm getting ready to switch OS to try. If the alternative OS also fails, then I know it's HW related. 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/New-ReadyNAS-Users-General/Leave-ReadyNAS-possible-replacements/m-p/2308277/highlight/false#M51162

I'm even thinking of installing Windows on it and play with it to see what it does!

I'm wondering whether it could be some special combination of HDDs and latest version of FW? No idea. But I'm clutching at straws here. 

Can I ask what is this "run-parts" which runs on cron every hour?

Jul 14 18:55:24 Enterprise-NAS cron[2862]: (CRON) INFO (Running reboot jobs)
Jul 14 19:17:01 Enterprise-NAS CRON[4675]: (root) CMD (   cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly)
Jul 14 20:17:01 Enterprise-NAS CRON[5487]: (root) CMD (   cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly)
Jul 14 21:17:01 Enterprise-NAS CRON[6458]: (root) CMD (   cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly)
Jul 14 22:17:01 Enterprise-NAS CRON[7143]: (root) CMD (   cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly)
Jul 14 23:17:01 Enterprise-NAS CRON[7802]: (root) CMD (   cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly)

The plan is still to try openmediavault but next week as I need the NAS this WE. It's now back to disappearing multiple times a day - sometimes fully frozen, no caps-lock activity when USB keyboard is plugged in - sometimes it's accessible on the second eth port and I can revive it by disabling and enabling the main port. 

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tony359 wrote:

Can I ask what is this "run-parts" which runs on cron every hour?

 

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See https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/debianutils/run-parts.8.en.html

What it's running is found in /etc/cron.hourly.

I've now fully transitioned to OMV - I chose to wipe the RAID and not to re-use it, which was a possibility I understand. BTRFS is not fully and directly supported by OMV via GUI so I opted for RAID5 and XFS. 

As recommended, I am not using the internal USB device for the OS as they might fail easily given that the OS is writing and reading much more than just "booting the NAS". There is a plugin to set the OS for USB so most of the writing is reduced to larger chunks and I believe a Ramdrive is being used as well.

I've selected a fast USB stick with metal case and low profile so it's plugged at the back and doesn't stick out too much - to avoid damage.

I am still running the external ATX PSU, I will reinstall the original (fixed) PSU in a month or so, if all goes well.

So far so good - but OS6 also worked for 2 months so time will tell.

OMV is VERY basic. The interface is nowhere near what OS6 offers. And some features are not available - or only available via plugins and/or CLI. It's more flexible as you can basically install whatever you want on it but you need to know what you're doing 🙂 

BTRFS for example is supported but only via CLI. The UI is functional but crude. 

With OMV, the VGA output works, so I can take control with monitor and keyboard if required. The Debian kernel is the latest available and I see OMV updates being frequently available. 

One thing I had to implement myself is fan control: lm-sensors worked though. It's not as nice as OS6 but does the trick. 

Now finger crossed. I'll update in some time hopefully with good news. 

tony359What model is your unit? RNDP6000-100?

"I've now fully transitioned to OMV " Any chance you would share steps in a new thread? Any difficulties?

Hi

Where do I see the model? 🙂

I was planning to make a guide, I should have taken some notes!

The install was flawless - I had issued but turned out my brand new USB stick I purchased was fake and faulty! 🙂

You need VGA output. Once you get in the BIOS you change the BOOT from the internal USB to the USB stick which you created following OMV's instructions. 

Then it's just a matter of following the instruction and the box will reboot with an IP address. At that point you can log on and start customising things. 

If you use a USB stick as a boot device, you should install the openmediavault-flashmemory plugin - which will reduce the writing on the drive and use some RAM as well maybe?

Then it's all via GUI. As I said, OMV is pretty basic. But works. Also, do get a FAST usb stick and do expect the system to be very sluggish at the beginning when all processes and updates are running. Once it's settled, it's perfectly fine. This is because you're using a USB drive as OS drive. Unfortunately OMV does not support OS on the RAID as OS6 does. 

Fans are not controlled by OMV so I installed lm-sensors and configured them myself. I'll see if I can find the guide I followed but it's standard Linux stuff. 

Oh, the display also won't work but I managed to send it some custom text and I believe someone's done some work to make it work. I'm sure something will come up. It's definitely accessible from Linux. 

As I haven't touched the internal USB, I could return to OS6 any time - losing the data of course. 

I see if I can come up with a better guide at some point, so far this is my experience. The box has been running perfectly fine and Debian updates (and also OMV) are coming regularly via GUI. 

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tony359 wrote:

Hi

Where do I see the model? 🙂

Does the part number end in -100xxx or -200 xxx?

I this case, it doesn't matter.  The only difference is the processor, and you've upgraded yours.

Quick update, the system has been up for 20 days and no issues whatsoever. 

I am avoiding running updates as that would restart things and I don't want to somehow "fix" things unintentionally.

Another update, it's now 2 months and I haven't had the slightest issue with OMV.

I did try avoiding updates - which inevitably restart the software or the whole NAS - but I've then discovered that Debian will send security updates which are done regardless of me going to the UPDATE section of OMV. So at least once I found the "uptime" timer had reset because the NAS had been forcibly updated and the update required a reboot.

The thing is that: it works. No issues at all. After about a month I've also gone back to the original PSU, recapped and with a powerful fan this time. The PSU indeed is blowing quite some heat so I must have cooked those capacitors with the very slow fan.

Also, I have swapped the airflow direction of the fan. I do feel the factory one cannot be right. The PSU has a dedicated air vent at the BOTTOM. Air there is cool as it's under the unit. Hot air go up. So I feel that the PSU should get fresh air from there and blow OUT along with the larger system fan above.

Having the PSU to suck air at the back and blow it under the NAS is nonsensical to me.

1. The fan will suck the hot "system" air if the NAS is close-ish to a surface

2. The hot air expelled at the bottom of the case will rise and some of it will be sucked back in by the PSU fan. I feel that swapping direction makes totally sense. Feel free to disagree with me!

Anyways, I'm convinced that OS6 has a bug that applies to my system - maybe because of the amount of data, the disks type etc. Who knows. All I know is that (finger crossed) OMV works. 

I think this could be my final update on this subject.

It's been 4+ months of use and I had ZERO issues with OMV and my ReadyNAS. The nas is on 24/7, the share is always accessible, no issues to report. 

At some point I was unable to update, a file had been left locked apparently - I was given some advice on the OMV forum , I deleted a file and it worked again. A little software bug 🙂