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ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

tony359
Apprentice

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

Thank you. I see some errors that its twin doesn't have - but last one happened at 7872hours and the drive now has 51732 hours so I don't think it's relevant. Logs attached (apologies for the PDF but TXT are not allowed and the logs are too big for the post)

 

I'd still would love to be able to access the terminal via VGA if possible. If not, I guess I'll try replacing that drive. 

 

I remember there was an expansion limitation for the XRaid, correct? I think I started at 4GB and I am now 16TB (4+4+4+6+6). Can I still expand or have I reached the limitation where I need to factory reset?

 

 

Message 76 of 191
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again


@tony359 wrote:

 

I remember there was an expansion limitation for the XRaid, correct? I think I started at 4GB and I am now 16TB (4+4+4+6+6). Can I still expand or have I reached the limitation where I need to factory reset?

 


You are running OS-6, correct?

 

Expansion limits only apply to 4.x and 5.x firmware.

Message 77 of 191
tony359
Apprentice

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

I am running OS6 indeed. Wow, I had forgotten that. Then I guess an 8TB will do 🙂

 

Waiting for @Sandshark to see if the terminal can be accessed via VGA 🙂

Message 78 of 191
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

This still sounds to me like a power supply that's failing.  I don't even recall if I've ever looked at the VGA output on a Pro6 running OS6 during boot.  Once the OS is booted, you should have a terminal available as long as SSH is enabled.  My RD5200 and RN4200 running OS6 certainly do show at least a part of the boot sequence and I get a terminal there after boot completion.

Message 79 of 191
tony359
Apprentice

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

The Power Supply is always an option. I did scope the rails with my oscilloscope two months ago and I didn't see anything weird. That doesn't mean nothing is happening. Maybe I could re-cap it regardless. I could also run the NAS with an external PSU but I don't think I have a "known working" PSU I can use right now. 

 

Is there a list of capacitors for the PSU I can find online? So that I don't have to disassemble it to find out I don't have them 🙂

 

You don't find that missing HDD on the boot list as suspicious?

 

Re. the terminal, that's weird. I wouldn't think the model of the NAS would make a difference. I think the only option is that the NAS is outputting some weird resolution my monitor doesn't like - possible but unlikely though, it's a pretty old monitor with a proper VGA input. I can try another monitor though. There is an output, the monitor detects it. But either is black or the monitor fails to display it. 

 

Can you guide me on how to login the terminal? I'd like to issue a reboot command "blindly" to see if the NAS responds. What do you normally see on screen, without touching anything? 

In other words, what do I type to login? Enter first to display the username field? Or the username directly?

 

Thanks!

Message 80 of 191
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

The "missing" drive could be because of weak power causing it to spin up too slowly.

 

I never bother replacing caps in a supply.  The supplies just aren't expensive enough to go to that trouble (my time has value, too).

 

The terminal is just like an SSH session.  User name root, password same as admin password.

Message 81 of 191
tony359
Apprentice

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

I am into electronics and I have a youtube channel where I repair things so maybe recapping the PSU could be a project.

 

That said, you are not mistaken. The NAS is an important part of my network so I had a look at the available PSU and... well, one thing I never buy from Ebay is random Chinese items where mains is involved.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152998337220?hash=item239f695ac4:g:YFYAAOSwBMRa12ul&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA...

 

I appreciate Cooler Master doesn't manufacture these custom PSU's but I'm very concerned about the manufacturing quality of those. It says 80 Plus on it and that's it. Does anybody have any experience of a replacement one? And I don't mean "it works". Unfortunately some HW from China dealing with Mains is just a health hazard. They might "work" but I'm not sure it's something I'd want running in my living room 24/7!

 

Meanwhile I think I'll do this

- Remove the original PSU and replace it with an ATX I have. 

- Extensively test the original PSU with dummy loads and monitor rails for issues. Last time I just took a look at the rails while connected, they looked fine. I'll use a dummy load - or maybe a motherboard running some benchmarks - and set the oscilloscope for capturing spikes or dips. 

- Replace the capacitors and re-do the soldering

 

If the NAS fails with the replacement PSU as well, well then I know it's not the PSU. (Even though the ATX PSU I have was removed from service for... shutting down my PC randomly but for the life of me I could never replicate that issue when outside of the case and it's been my testing PSU for ages).

 

Finally, if/when the NAS crashes, I'll check if the same HDD fails to appear on the BIOS. While what you suggest is a possibility, I don't think that's our problem. But I am not dismissing your idea. Just gut's feeling 🙂

 

On the terminal: I had forgotten I had replaced the password... I was able to issue a reboot command (blindly) and the NAS restarted. So maybe it's just a monitor issue?

Message 82 of 191
KDS
Tutor
Tutor

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

I had a problem where my Pro 6 would just keep rebooting on shut down, and then reboot again after assigning network address. This was only after I tried to add additional HDDs. It would just reboot after I added the 4th HDD. After spending days trying to get Xraid to work, I ended up just having two x 3 HDD continuous arrays.

Single network feed into switch, into router.

My original setup was OS 4.2.31, 1Gb Ram PC6400, E5300 cpu, and 2 x 2TB HDDs in mirror array.

That setup ran OK, until I tried to plug in a the second network card, then it would crash, continuously reboot, only start if I cleared the CMOS. Then hang on shutdown, power button stay Blue, with all internal fans off, though PSU fan running. At that point I figured OS 4 may be outdated so started the journey into OS6.

 

Then the upgrade;

Started with install of OS6, which went fine.

Ram upgraded to 4Gb, 2 x 2Gb (PC6400). no issues, boot tested fine.

CPU upgraded to Q6600, though ended up raising CPU/internal temp 15% to 45/67deg C, which I wasn't comfortable with, so went back to E5300, (now 38/58 deg C).

Cleaned CPU & rear fan, note the rear Fan has a 78cfm - 2200rpm extract rating, if you're replacing with your average $5, 1500rpm case fan may not do the business, those may stop at lower speeds and logs fan failure messages. Suggest you buy a good fan with decent speed range (500-2200rpm) or there abouts.

 

Although my system would boot and start up, had issues if I tried to plug in second network cable, or run a background service such as volume defrag. The issue being it crash and attempt in vein to reboot.

 

Then finally, I thought maybe it's the PSU? The original is after all 8 years old, and been on 24/7 most of that time. I hooked up a 650W desktop PSU. It was literally an instant fix.

* Start up fine.

* Network fine, (ISCSI handshake immediate on boot, static IP router and RN NICs).

* Shutdown fine.

* Background services fine.

* WOL fine.

* Scheduled shutdown and start up fine.

 

None the less, I've now installed a 750W SFX (80Gold) power supply. Pretty much the smallest I could get from a quality manufacturer, which ended up costing me $150, as opposed to a $60-350W cheap brand unit. Lessen learnt , years ago.

 I've decided to splash out and have now purchased for $15 an E7600 CPU, which should arrive next week.

 

My regret is that my 6 disk array is now two continuous volumes, where a Xraid single volume is what I originally wanted, though couldn't make happen? The other regret is Apps, only plex media server seems able to load.

 

Anyone know where to get apps which will install?

 

 

Message 83 of 191
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again


@Sandshark wrote:

The "missing" drive could be because of weak power causing it to spin up too slowly.

 


@tony359: I'm wondering if swapping disk 1 and disk 6 (with NAS powered down) would be worth a test.  The slower spin up time might not be power-related.

Message 84 of 191
tony359
Apprentice

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

Thanks for the inputs! Yes I guess a new PSU is a good idea regardless. This NAS is 15 years old. 

 

I didn't realise I can look for SFX power supplies. I found this

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/300w-seasonic-sfx-sfb-fully-wired-80plus-bronze-single-rail-36a-sfx-...

 

Scan is a famous dealer in the UK and this seems to be a 100% replacement. I can look for a higher wattage indeed.

 

Can someone please confirm that any SFX power supply would work?

 

Actually this one would be a good option. I like BeQuiet! and this is a 450W.

https://www.bequiet.com/en/powersupply/2309

 

@StephenB 

I thought about that, looks like a good idea. Can you confirm the RAID is not going to be affected by the position of the drives? Obviously I appreciate a backup is in order and nothing is a certainty when moving drives around 🙂

 

Thanks!

Message 85 of 191
KDS
Tutor
Tutor

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

Good guide here 

Google : ReadyNAS Pro 6 Power Supply FAN replacement

 

The OEM has a protruding fan case.  The newer modern PSUs don't have these, though the fan outlet is same place though flush with the PSU box. Any SFX power supply should fit, though I bought a Lian Li Sp750, which is fairly good quality, though this unit was a very tight fit and the unit is slightly 1mm bigger than the old OEM 350W unit. If you are buying a modular unit, check the 24pin lead is long enough. (at least 450mm long) .The unit I got the leads just made it though can't be installed as original OEM.

 

As far as PSU wattage goes, OEM is 350W. 

What people say on line is the average HDD tested consumes 21W, even though manufacturers say 8-10W.

So if all fully power loaded. So rule of thumb allow 25W per HDD x 6 =150W, then fans say another 25W, main board/NICs 50W, CPU (Q6600) can draw approx 125W, your already at 350W. A 350W unit will probably do the job, maybe struggle under load. with a good 20% safety factor, in perfect world conditions. With drives drawing only say 10-12W each. Though as components get older and heat accumulates in the NAS, the power draw can greatly increase. remember HDD perfect R/W power consumption test are based on continuous R/W, real world can be much more erratic. Considering you have upgraded the CPU from a stock 65W unit to a 105W unit, with all the associated heat and electrical load. Suggest you consider at least a 450W unit.

My thinking was buy a better PSU, with less load on its capacity, I can always remove and reuse elsewhere.

 

Message 86 of 191
tony359
Apprentice

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

Thanks Stephen,

 

I also suppose that 4 and 6TB HDDs did not exist when the unit was developed and the PSU was designed around smaller units which don't have to spin so many platters around. 

 

Anyways, knowing that the existing PSU is probably running close to 100% when under load, I guess a replacement is good.

 

I think I'll still test with an ATX one though. Main reason is that I believe the new PSU will need to be disassembled to fit the mains cable if what I see from online pics is correct? Ideally I don't want to invest money in a good quality PSU to then have to open it up straight away. If the NAS still misbehaves, I wouldn't be able to return it. So I'll test with a regular ATX.

 

I would also like a PSU with 3 Molex connectors - last thing I want is *another* fire in my PC because of crappy SATA-Molex adaptors 🙂

 

I'll consider the Lian Li, thanks. That seems like good value for money considering 750W output. The BeQuiet is 450W and cost similar money.

Weird about the dimensions, according to LianLi's datasheet it's standard SFX.

Did you need to do any modification to it? Cable extenders, Molex adaptors? And can you confirm if it needs to be opened to wire mains in? 

 

Meanwhile the NAS disappeared again but this time I could reboot it via terminal (blindly). I forgot to turn on the monitor to see whether all the drives were being seen... 😞

 

Message 87 of 191
tony359
Apprentice

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

I can answer one question myself: no disassembly of PSU required, I've just removed the PSU and I had forgotten it comes with an IEC to IEC contraption.

Cooler Master 750W ATX PSU is in. First thing I noticed is that upon power up HDD0 failed to show up - so it's not a PSU issue. I'm wondering if it's a red herring here or maybe HDD0 is having some issues. Maybe the MB fails to recognise it but by the time the OS has started it's managed to come back to life. (I've compare the spin up time of SDA and it's identical to SDB). 

 

Second: I've now tried thee different monitors and none displays any VGA output after the OS has botted up. One showed some "noise" as if the signal was not locked on properly. But I could not improve it.

 

I haven't touched the HDD yet, I want to see what happens with this PSU first. If it fails again, I'll work on the HDD. 

Message 88 of 191
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

I recommend at least a 400W supply to all.  The original Seasonic has a higher 12V rating (which is used to spin the drives) than most 300W supplies.  A few (like the Seasonic model that replaced the one in the NAS) have a fan that is offset.  Some have said here that they've had no problem with that, but I avoid them.  With most, you'll need to get a 12cm or so extender for the 24-pin connection and/or more 4-pin Molex (old style hard drive) connectors.  You can get more 4-pins in a few ways:  SATA to Molex adapter(s), Molex Y cables (probably the worst option), or remove the 90° IDC connectors for the old and install on the new, which is best for keeping the cables tidy so as not to affect the air flow but does render going back to the old supply more difficult.

 

The symptoms reported by @KDS are typical of a failing +5VSB (5 volt standby, labeled just 5Vs on the original supply), as it powers the on/off circuit and network components.  It is always on (so it can support WoL) unless you unplug the unit or use the rear switch, but the fans aren't on when the NAS is "off".  So especially if your "off" NAS can get a bit warm, it's often the first casualty on a unit that is powered down a lot.  The original PSU has a 2A rating on +5VSB, so make sure the new one has at least that (I don't think I've seen a 400W PSU that didn't).  A bit more there could help.

 

FYI, the spin-up inrush current of modern drives is actually typically lower than that of many (especially enterprise grade) drives from when the Pro6 was released.  Thinner platters with more densely packed data (so not a huge number of added ones) and better start-up control account for that.  Lighter materials, too, I suspect, but the manufacturers keep that close to their chest.  But because of the better spin-up control, they often require better regulated 12V than did their predecessors.  But the bigger they get, the more they "catch up" power draw wise.

Message 89 of 191
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

Is SSH enabled?  Whatever setting the NAS uses for that also affects whether or not you can use the console.

Message 90 of 191
tony359
Apprentice

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

Yes, SSH is enabled.

Thanks for the details. 

 

I've tested the Seasonic PSU a bit with my digital dummy load and at 7A (max is 8A) the 12V is pretty bad. Not sure if it's supposed to be like that. But 1.6V of ripple doesn't seem normal to me. Voltage also drops to 11.4V. 

 

In comparison the 5V line remains at low ripple even when pushed up to 19A (20A max).

 

Let's see how the replacement PSU behaves. Then I'll make a decision. 450W is going to be the minimum indeed. But I might want to replace the capacitors of the Seasonic anyways, 7A at 12V is within spec.

 

Oh, and because I thought the noise might have been coming from the digital load (which is a mosfet after all), I tried with a 1Ohm resistor. The attached is the resistor, not the digital load. 

Message 91 of 191
tony359
Apprentice

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

I think the original PSU is indeed faulty. It shuts down when I apply more than 3A on the 12V rail when cold. After several attempts, it stays on and behaves ok - but with the ripple previously mentioned.

I tried loading the 5V line as well - I know some PSU don’t like not having a load - but no change.

I guess this is good news 🙂

@StephenB
Reviews of the LianLi say it’s a bit noisy, what’s your experience?
Message 92 of 191
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again


@tony359 wrote:

 

Can you confirm the RAID is not going to be affected by the position of the drives? Obviously I appreciate a backup is in order and nothing is a certainty when moving drives around 🙂

 


The RAID will assemble with the drives in any order.  

 

That said, keeping the drives in order for troubleshooting is often useful.  So I do recommend swapping them back if it makes no difference.  

Message 93 of 191
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again


@KDS wrote:

 

What people say on line is the average HDD tested consumes 21W, even though manufacturers say 8-10W.

So if all fully power loaded. So rule of thumb allow 25W per HDD x 6 =150W, then fans say another 25W, main board/NICs 50W, CPU (Q6600) can draw approx 125W, your already at 350W.

 


FWIW, my Pro-6 draws about 145W during boot, then drops to 80W.

 

It is using the stock CPU (E5300), with 8 GB of RAM.  The disks are 

  • two WD80EFAX
  • one ST8000VN004
  • three WD30EFRX

The TDP for the Q6600 is about 40W higher than the E5300.

Message 94 of 191
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again


@tony359 wrote:

 

First thing I noticed is that upon power up HDD0 failed to show up - so it's not a PSU issue. I'm wondering if it's a red herring here or maybe HDD0 is having some issues.


Definitely worth trying the disk swap test.

Message 95 of 191
tony359
Apprentice

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

Thanks for confirming Stephen. I'll give the NAS some time with the ATX PSU, then if the issue resurfaces I'll move HDDs around.

 

BTW, please ignore the issue with the Seasonic PSU:

1. The ripple disappears if the 24pin connector is plugged into a motherboard so it looks like the PSU doesn't like if only 12V is being used

2. The issue powering up was my fault 🙂

Message 96 of 191
tony359
Apprentice

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

Update.

 

Sigh. The NAS disappeared from the network again, this is with the ATX power supply.

I rebooted via terminal (blindly) and took a video of the POST. HDD0 was correctly detected.

 

This is incredibly frustrating! I guess I can remove the PSU from the equation, that leaves the HDD - but even that is guesswork.

 

@Sandshark any more ideas about displaying the UI on VGA? It would definitely help to see what's working and what's not when the NAS disappears from the network.

Message 97 of 191
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

I would have to pull a Pro6 with VGA out of storage to see if I get the command prompt.  I currently only run rack-mount units at home and a native OS6 unit as remote backup.  I'm assuming you already verified you have SSH enabled.

Message 98 of 191
tony359
Apprentice

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

I do have SSH enabled! 🙂

 

I've just tested turning SSH off and on again but I still don't get an output. 

I appreciate I only have DELL monitors but I never had issues with VGA. I even managed to display out of spec EGA signal on one of them!

 

I appreciate the hassle of having to dig out a Pro6. You have my appreciation if you could do it - but no hard feelings if you can't do it! 🙂

 

 

Message 99 of 191
itachi2
Tutor

Re: ReadyNAS Pro 6 crashed again

I had sporadic network drops in my Pro 6 but I could reconnect via the second port.  I could SSH again in that way but filesystem was unresponsive and shutdown would hang.  I did have a btrfs error in the logs though and eventually ran an offline btrfs-check after booting from a live Debian USB that found one file that was often accessed was corrupt.  I think I wound up deleting the file vs. having btrfs-check repair it -- this was a while back so details are a little hazy, but btrfs-check (or a scrub) eventually found it.  There may have been a CSUM ref or two in the logs as well.

 

The only similarity may be the kernel fault that showed for me as well, but might be worth a filesystem check or two.  Hope you get closer to an answer - my bug took months and I still have a remote power plug to cycle it when necessary.

Message 100 of 191
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