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Forum Discussion
Orbi: We really need separate SSID for 2.4 Ghz and 5Ghz or speed is limited to less than 200 Mbps
TLDR: With Orbi, my 5Ghz capable devices are "forced" to connect to 2.4 Ghz most of the time, slowing down speed. Tested against 3 different routers and my 5Ghz capable can connect to 5Ghz network all the time.
I got the 3-pack Orbi from Costco and after numerous testing, ALL my devices are connecting to 2.4 Ghz MOST of the TIME rather than 5 Ghz. This slows down the transfer speed from 800 Mbps to a paltry 145 Mbps.
Unfortunately, since the Orbi does not allow separate SSID for 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz, I cannot "force" my device to connect only to 5Ghz to get better speed. This means that I have a $499 router system that mostly allow only 2.4 Ghz.
I previously have a Time Capsule and setup 2 separate SSID:
- devices capable of 5Ghz will ONLY connect to 5Ghz SSID (MacBook, iPhone, etc.)
- devices capable of ONLY 2.4 Ghz will connect to 2.4Ghz SSID (thermostate, etc.)
There was no changes on the setup or placement of my devices when I replace the Time Capsule with the Orbi:
1). Orbi is in the middle of apartment, same location as my Time Capsule
2). Laptops are in the same area as before (desk, room 1, etc.)
3). Other devices are in the same area as before (printer, camera, thermostat, etc.).
4). No new devices that can interference with Wifi signal
The ONLY changes is the Orbi Router and Satellite and now all my 5Ghz capable devices are connecting to 2.4 Ghz with Orbi.
I powered down Orbi, put my Time Capsule back and BAM!! I got 5Ghz connection again. For a separate testing, I bought the following:
- Netgear Nighthawk AC1900
- ASUS RTC3200
Setup both to have separate SSID and BAM! 5Ghz devices can connect to ONLY 5Ghz network.
I hope Orbi will change this in the new upgrade. Otherwise, I have no need for a $499 router that "force" 5Ghz devices to connect to 2.4 Ghz network.
84 Replies
- The actual problem seems to be with the speed supported in 5g itself. I turned off 2g and only enabled 5g. My samsung edge device could only reach low 90mbps for both upload and download. If i directly connect to my verizon gigbit router then i can go up to 300+ mbps. I also know for sure that i did turn off 2g in orbi because some of the low end devices couldnt even see/pickup tge orbi ssid.
If there is no way to increase speed beyond 300+ mbps in orbi 5g then $400 is not worth it.Moh_V It wasn't clear from what you wrote. If you can get 300 Mbps on that phone with the Verizon router then you should do better than 92 Mbs with Orbi. Something must be wrong. I have a couple questions:
1. Is your verizon rotuer's WiFi still active? You should turn it OFF.
2. Is Orbi in Access Point mode? You should put Orbi in Access Point mode if you are still using your Verizon router.
3. You said you disabled 2 GHz. How exactly did you do that? The latest Orbi firmware does not allow disabling bands.
4. Check your cabling and connections to make sure Orbi is connected through to your router using gigabit hardware and cat5e or better cables. A speed limit of 92 Mbs sounds like Orbi could be limited by a 100 Mbps LAN connection somewhere.
5. What do you get for a speed test if you wire a computer to the Orbi router?
st_shaw wrote:4. Check your cabling and connections to make sure Orbi is connected through to your router using gigabit hardware and cat5e or better cables. A speed limit of 92 Mbs sounds like Orbi could be limited by a 100 Mbps LAN connection somewhere.
If you're taking bets, my money is on #4.
You need a high-end very capable WiFi device to get top speed. I get an average of 470 Mbps with an iPhone 7+ when connected to the Orbi router, and 380 Mbps when connected to the satellite. That's about as good as it's going to get.
- The same edge+ device that can reach 300+ mbps with verizon router directly, can only reach 92 mpbs approx going thru orbi. That to me sounds like an issue with orbi, unless there is some other configuration further hidden in orbi. Isn't it?
I agree .. I bought this Orbi system to replace my Nighthawk (helluva piece of gear) solely because my modem is on the 3rd floor of my big old house and the first floor coverage is iffy in places. Now that I can't assign different ssids to the two different channels, my Apple TV and other devices on the first floor (which aren't in dead spots) can't be forced to stay on the higher thru put channel. Surely, Netgear can change this in a firmware update ...
1. Enable Telnet on http://192.168.1.1/debug.htm
2. Open Terminal (or whatever your command line app is) and enter:
telnet 192.168.1.1
3. After you're connected enter the following 3 commands, pressing Return after each one:
config set wla_ssid="Whatever You Want to Call Your 5 GHz Network" config commit reboot
4. Disable Telnet on http://192.168.1.1/debug.htm
- At least you got it from Costco they will take it back
- I’m not sure that I agree. I think it’s a software change which would be easy to implement. I only want to be able to choose a bandwidth in certain instances, I.e. for my iPhone which needs the speed offered by 5G, all the 200 other devices can roam onto whichever bandwidth Orbi puts them on
mostlyfoild wrote:
I’m not sure that I agree. I think it’s a software change which would be easy to implement. I only want to be able to choose a bandwidth in certain instances, I.e. for my iPhone which needs the speed offered by 5G, all the 200 other devices can roam onto whichever bandwidth Orbi puts them onthe software change would esentially remove the very purpose and design of the orbi compared to any other router and repeater setup
the issue you cant do it for just some devices as its all or none its that simple
- st_shaw re SONOS as its own mesh, I can only connect the speakers to a wifi network or via Ethernet to a switch, is there another way I’m missing? I’ll try and edit the GUI options though re coexistence.
mostlyfoild wrote:
st_shaw re SONOS as its own mesh, I can only connect the speakers to a wifi network or via Ethernet to a switch, is there another way I’m missing? I’ll try and edit the GUI options though re coexistence.mostlyfoild To use Sonos mesh you connect one, and only one, speaker, bridge, or boost to a wired port. Since Orbi uses a 40 MHz width in 2.4 GHz you also need to use Channel 1 on Orbi and channel 11 on Sonos, or vice versa. Lastly, the Sonos units need to be close enough to establish a path from the wired unit to each unit. Sonos will figure out the path, and will hop through intermediate units if required.
I do find it interesting that, almost without exception, it's Apple device owners clamoring for split SSIDs for each channel.
Has anyone actually taken this up with Apple, given it appears it's their firmware/chipset that is having difficulty with 5GHz affinity and roaming?
Rodney
- TheEther that’s correct, I believe the point of the thread is us saying to Netgear that we would like to access seperate SSIDs on seperate frequencies. There is no way for me to explicitly force my iPhone to connect to the 5G part of a single SSID
mostlyfoild wrote:
TheEther that’s correct, I believe the point of the thread is us saying to Netgear that we would like to access seperate SSIDs on seperate frequencies.but the logic of the way the orbi works with its ap and band steering means that it would degrade its performance if you had separate ssid's and roaming would far less a positive experience
if you want separate ssid's im not sure orbi is your answer as i cant see netgear changing the the thing that makes orbi what it is and thats automated whole home wifi
- I’m confused by the first paragraph of this post TheEther on every device (client) I connect to my wifi usually I am given the choice of either the 2.4 or the 5Ghz network to connect to. They have different SSIDs... and unique passwords which I have created. Therefore I am able to connect high throughput devices like iPhones and AppleTVs to the 5Ghz do they get super fast browsing/streaming speeds and things that require little or no speed (like LIFX or Hue) to the 2.4 account. It’s also worth noting that I can’t get SONOS to see Orbi at all.
mostlyfoild If you want Sonos to connect to Orbi, you might try going into the GUI, Advanced, Advanced Setup, Wireless Settings and uncheck "Enable 20/40 MHz Coexistence" This has allowed some of my 2.4G-only devices to connect to Orbi.
I have Sonos, but personally I would never connected it using WiFi. Sonos has its own sophisticated mesh network, and that works extremely well. It's a true mesh network and can cover an entire home exceptionally well.
mostlyfoild, there are two different concepts, SSIDs and frequency bands (i.e. 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz). When you have two different SSIDs and each one is associated to a different frequency band, then you can, effectively, connect a device to a specific frequency band by joining the appropriate SSID.
But, the point of this thread is that the Orbi uses the same SSID for both frequency bands. Therefore, you cannot easily connect a device to a specific frequency band. As I stated earlier, most devices lack the capability to select a specific frequency band. Whenever I connect my iPhone an SSID that has multiple frequency bands, it has never prompted me to choose which band to use.
Most clients cannot be forced to connect to a specific band. That's the whole point of this discussion.
BTW, thank you, Uplink01, for the helpful link on MacOS roaming behavior. I'll note that it states that the threshold for roaming is -67 dBm at 5 GHz, not -75 dBm. -75 dBm only applies to 2.4 GHz. This means that MacOS will be more aggressive about roaming at 5 GHz. Given that 5 GHz signals are generally weaker than 2.4 GHz, it won't take much to trigger a roaming search.
Chuckie cheese, you should monitor the RSSI levels and see if they ever drop below -67 dBm. You may also want to check the logs on the Mac about what's going on with WiFi. You can either use the Console app or look in /var/log/. system.log is the main log file but other files may be worth a look, too.[Edit: I forgot to add that my bet is that the Orbi is briefly dropping the Wi-Fi connection. There are other threads where people complain about this.]
TheEther Respectfully, you need to reread that Apple link more carefully. It does not state a different roaming threshold for 5Gz. What it says is that 5Ghz APs are usually overlapped at the -67 dBm level, and therefore macOS clients will hang onto an AP longer than expected. (Due to the -75 dBm roaming threshold, you can travel far into another APs zone before the client will switch.)
If you are reading something else that I missed, please correct me, but here is the passage:
"macOS clients monitor and maintain the current BSSID’s connection until the RSSI crosses the -75 dBm threshold. After RSSI crosses that threshold, macOS scans for roam candidate BSSIDs for the current ESSID.
Consider this threshold in view of the signal overlap between your wireless cells. macOS maintains a connection until the -75 dBm threshold, but 5 GHz cells are designed with a -67 dBm overlap. Those clients will remain connected to the current BSSID longer than you expect."Indeed, I am mistaken. Thanks for the correction!
Got mine today and found out the hard way that there is not separate SSIDs for 2.4 and 5ghz. The router provided to me from ATT has this functionality. Not sure why this $350 replacement/upgrade does not. I'm inclined to retutn this. Thanks Netgear
yashart7 wrote:Got mine today and found out the hard way that there is not separate SSIDs for 2.4 and 5ghz. The router provided to me from ATT has this functionality. Not sure why this $350 replacement/upgrade does not. I'm inclined to retutn this. Thanks Netgear
A single SSID is required for clients to seamlessly roam between access points. Setup this way, your device will switch from router to satellite, and also from 5 GHz to 2.4 GHz when you get out of range of 5 GHz. This is how most enterprise systems are configured.
What are you doing that requires separate SSIDs?
yashart7 wrote:
Got mine today and found out the hard way that there is not separate SSIDs for 2.4 and 5ghz. The router provided to me from ATT has this functionality. Not sure why this $350 replacement/upgrade does not. I'm inclined to return this. Thanks Netgear
its because it designed to automate your wifi environment both in AP steering and band steering , you will find most of the mesh systems work this way as to get the best wifi coverage is to be able to balance those steerings automatically , if you didnt do this the steering would be compromised and make the orbi less effectual
your clients should be smart enough to connect to the 5 gig band if its available and most clients you can force them to connect to one band or another
