Whelp, we're back to a no-routing scenario today after tweaking those settings yesterday. I'm done with this product-- will be ordering Amplifi later today and returning Orbi. Big shame-- when this product works correctly it's fantastic.
All satellites connected. Frankly I'm not willing to entertain troubleshooting which involves disabling my satellites for an extended period of time. If the system is fragile enough to require this type of "shooting in the dark" troubleshooting then I'm just not interested in owning it.
Honestly I'm surprised that Netgear doesn't have more detailed logs that can be pulled for troubleshoot rathering that taking random stabs at possible fixes.
All satellites connected. Frankly I'm not willing to entertain troubleshooting which involves disabling my satellites for an extended period of time. If the system is fragile enough to require this type of "shooting in the dark" troubleshooting then I'm just not interested in owning it.
Honestly I'm surprised that Netgear doesn't have more detailed logs that can be pulled for troubleshoot rathering that taking random stabs at possible fixes.
Yeah unfortunately without some documentation to back up that claim, I’m not buying it. The system should be managing frequencies amongst the nodes to prevent them from interfering with each other. If it’s not then again this product is ill-conceived and not something I want to invest time and money into anyway.
Going to take my opportunity to bail while I’m still within my return window— maybe in a few years Orbi will be fully fleshed out. At this point it seems it’s still very much in development (eg, the QoS settings page is not QoS at all)
Over all, the Orbi does work. I presume NG should have some better support site information regarding home size what what would work best.
If you scroll down to the bottom of this page, you'll see a general Find Your System that seem to make suggestions on what Orbis system would work best based on home size, devices and internet speeds:
@skandocious wrote: Yeah unfortunately without some documentation to back up that claim, I’m not buying it. The system should be managing frequencies amongst the nodes to prevent them from interfering with each other. If it’s not then again this product is ill-conceived and not something I want to invest time and money into anyway.
Going to take my opportunity to bail while I’m still within my return window— maybe in a few years Orbi will be fully fleshed out. At this point it seems it’s still very much in development (eg, the QoS settings page is not QoS at all)
As I have sadi before thsi concept of disabling satellites 'cos there's too much wifi doesn't sit with a well engineered product like AmpliFi from Ubiquiti whihc has the same number of satellites and worked without any probelms
Sorry if I am confusing - my main test bed is Speedtest.net from a wired laptop and a wireless iPhone
When I installed the Amplfi system I got 95/95 on the wired and the wireless was 75/60 which increased to 80-90 up and down when I got closer to one of the satelites or base (My max i 100/100 from FiOS). Sorry I can't post or share the exact measurements as I lost my hard drive and am busy recovering my laptop and files and don't have ready access to my 30+ page of support notes
I'm sure I could have played around with placement of the main station and satellite to improve things but did not
My experience with Amplifi and Ubiquiti was so good I elected to move everything to their equipment (remeber steep learning curve but worth it imho). I'd stick with the Amplifi but wanted more granular control of filters on ports and configuration. No complaints at the Amplifi set up but is phone app based and I prefer the web based desktop system and more granualr control
I purchased an Edge4 router first to stabilise my wired setup
Then I purchased their inetlligent GB switches including one with PoE and purchased 2 wireless base stations. Ultimatley I bought an alternative router the USG device - slightly less throughput when you engage soem of the higher end packet inspection and controls but I wanted the integrated control from UniFi more whihc it does not offer. I'm just changign over the USG meanwhile love the WiFi from these seperate saucers that are slvete and received a thumbs up for design from my other half (never happened before)
Coverage is great and relieability rock solid
Monitoring is excellent but unless you leave a laptop running and connecting you need to buy a PoE powered "Cloud Key" (mini computer with a data card that records and allows for cloud connected management)
Yeah it was more expensive - but imagine what days of your time not working, spent waiting on the phone for support to answer. And the support from Ubiquiti outstadning as is the forums and tech support and how to articles
Here's my update-- I've been living on Ubiquiti Amplifi HD for about a week now and I've noticed a few things:
- Amplifi setup and management feels much more refined. Despite being app-only (no real web UI), everything is extremely fast and easy to navigate. And there are some nice power-user options like disable DNS cache so that the router propagates my Pi-Hole DNS server IP down to the clients rather than forcing them to use the router as DNS server. - Amplifi is certainly slower, without a doubt. Innevitably I think this just boils down to the lack of a dedicated backhaul radio. If I sit next the main router with my phone I can saturate my 150mbps ISP connection, but on a satellite I'm usually around half of that even when standing next to the satellite. - Band steering seems perhaps a bit better on Orbi, or this could be a range/antenna issue. I sometimes find my phones on 2.4Ghz when the satellites are in the same room. Toggling wifi off/on in my phone or unplugging/replugging the satellite generally fixes this scenario.
- Roaming between nodes could be better-- I sometimes find that I'm getting slow speeds because I'm still connected to the node in the room where I came from 5-10 minutes ago.
So here's my overall assessment...
- Orbi is better from a wireless perspective (speed, range, steering/roaming)
- Amplifi is better from a management/configuration perspective
- Amplifi is more stable/reliable (no full internet outages, as we're discussing here in this thread)
The last one is still the dealbreaker for me-- I'd rather have slow networking than no networking... Has Netgear even acknowledged this issue yet? Is there a fix coming? If this can be fixed I think I would revert back.
I had the same issues that you describe with WiFi signals dropping randomly on all of my apple products (iOS and OS X). I did a lot of research on the Orbi system as well as pros/cons with changing to other mesh systems. I had already dropped some serious $$ on the Orbi (Router, 2 indoor sats, 1 outdoor sat) and was not in the 30 day return window, so I decided to try and find a solution with the Orbi System. I bought the Asus AC-86U, added Merlin’s Firmware to the router and changed the Orbi System to access point only. I’ve previously used Asus routers w/Merlin’s Firmware, so I knew that it gave me the extra feature set I wanted to use with my system. Plus, when you buy an Asus router that supports it, you get Trend Micro’s “Aiprotection,” which has proven to be very useful built into the router including a free lifetime subscription. After setting the Orbi System I’m Access Point only, I have experienced fairly consistent WiFi with my iOS, OS X, and IOT devices. Occasionally, I do notice that my iPhone disconnects for a few seconds or so and then reconnects when I’m walking around my home or outside cutting the grass.
Also, I do have 3 separate automatic timer outlets for the modem (Netgear CM700), Asus router, and Orbi router (in access point mode) that resets all of the components in sequence (modem, router, access point) in the middle of the night.
Works well for my needs.
Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Thanks for the update - I concur with your assessment on the Amplifi and the assessment of Netgear Orbi. Its a deal breaker and no they have not acknowledged or accepted making it useless in any setting that requires reliable network connections for wired or wireless.
The alternative is to shift to Ubiquiti and take the pain of a steeper learning curve but install a reliable, resilient system that has all the speed you could need (FYI if you do Deep Packet INspection you'll need the Edge Router, not the Unifi router as the speed degrades more on the Unifi with DPI).
Another bonus on the Ubiquiti is the support forums and infrastructure is incredible - brilliant knowledgeable experts who jump in and are extremely helpful. You might spend a little more but it will be worthwhile imo
I can't emphasize this enough - Netgear Orbi is unreliable and will break your network connections - even your wired ones. The "Business" grade version is the same trouble and more cost for no benefit. The support infrastructure os a joke (Ubiquiti, by comparison, was responsive within a day and offered email, and phone responses and interactions - amplifi support even faster)
@j1n post is essentially your only option - turn the device into a dump AP and invest in other hardware to manage your network. That's an overpriced AP at >$700 - better off going with one reliable hardware system
I'll get drawn into this useless debate one more time and completely disagree with you. I have had my system now for 10 months and been so rock solid boring that I don't ever think about it. Wifi is rock solid on all wifi devices, including iPhones and ipad, and I get my full speed anywhere and everywhere.
In fact I have an airtv device hooked to one satellite, wireless backhaul to the router, wireless backhaul to another satellite, wired to a Roku tv. Watch football as if I was there with never a glitch during the entire game.
I love Orbi, thanks netgear for making such a remarkable system.
@tsig I'm happy for you but you are missing the point.
1) It may be working for you but impossible to know for sure since there is no example of a stateful connection and no logs or records of your connectivity for extended periods of time
It may work for some people - you're using a system to watch perhaps 4 hours (guess) of TV and don't notice any problems. What happens between those times, when you are in bed and there are no devices in use or systems demanding a connection and no one watching them to notice?
2) Netgear failed over a period of 3 months to even acknowledge that there could be a problem - there are enough people on this thread reporting random disconnects as evidence of problems occurring with this device. It may be limited to some specific use case or interference but the fact that the whole system - wireless and *wired* fails at random times and for varied durations is documented in my logs. I have a Gigabit hardwired network that disconnected on multiple occasions bringing every device and my internet connection down. I'm not even commenting on the wireless connectivity and never got far enough to even test the reliability of that.
The debate is "useless" to you because the technology works in your limited set of requirements. For anyone who requires stateful connections and/or reliable network connectivity that does not fail at random moments for an unpredictable length of time then this system is not for you.
This thread with more than 500 messages along with the other one "Orbi Losing wifi connection" dating back months with multiple users experiencing similar problems is evidence enough of a problem.
Hopefully, anyone doing research before buying finds these threads to make an informed decision rather than relying on user comments on purchasing sites. I know I wish I'd seen this before buying this device that has proven a major liability to my network and a huge waste of money and time
I believe that there are some with problems however since this thread started over a year ago, there have been updates AND improvments. So there has been progress. I believe for some with continued problems, some of you how have not proved your selves in trying what others have mentioned or even maybe contacted NG support to ask for help and information regarding your problems, may find the since last year, most of these issues are not FW releated. Theres been alot of FW updates to fix most of these issues. There are other factors that others have suggestions with have help many users get there systems working better and stable. Of course, other issues are the fact that some are HW related which not FW update is going to fix.
Theres been multitudes of users having good experiences and those helping out have been trying there best to help them as well, with success:
So you can't say this is always a FW issue. I beleive in most cases this is a environment or end user mis-configuration of the system which needs some additional help and information to get working better. So unless you can prove to use that you've done all and maybe asked for an RMA, then you just can't make a blanket statement to say that the NG Orbi is a total failure. it's not. Granted there have been FW issues and some HW issues. I presume those here in the forums are only trying to help others out in determinting where the REAL issues are and to help the users get them fixed, make adjustments or get the HW RMAd.
Overall the system does work. However due to many different kinds of environments and configurations, there are going to some that don't work well right out of the box. Why those are here trying to help other figure this out and why the community is here for.
Update: I've started an RMA on the Amplifi (the speed without a dedicated backhaul is just unimpressive, and I was continually finding it making some strange decisions regard band steering).
I also found out I get a signifiance discount on Linksys Velop through my employer so I picked up a 3-node set for testing (Orbi is still in returnable window for several more works). Been on Velop since yesterday evening and it seems fairly reliable and mostly splits the difference between Orbi and Amplifi when it comes to speed (can consistenly get at least 80-100 Mbps throughout the house). I definitely feel that their management is better than Netgear (cmon Netgear, your web UI is HORRIBLE).
I intend to live on Velop for a week or two and see how it compares to Orbi. The one consistent finding I'm having is that Orbi really seems to blow the others away in terms of wireless performance, even the Velop which has dedicated backhaul radios. I haven't yet explored the option to use a separate AP + Orbi in bridge mode (I have a Netgear R7000 that I could use in this config). More updates to come...
Quite frankly I have no idea where or why the issue occurs - firmware, hardware who knows. The fact that this thread dates back that long tells you that it has not been resolved as there are still new people buying this device with the expectation of it working and finding it does not. It's disingenuous to suggest we have to prove ourselves to be believed. Why on earth would I make this up? What possible motivation do I have to make up this story and consume even more of my most valuable commodity - time?
What I do know is another Mesh network was stood up and worked flawlessly in 15 mins and did not fail for wired or wireless. Just offering examples of it working doesn't mean there are no problems.
As I have repeatedly stated I am not even commenting on the Wireless network - this device failed for my wired network.
I have tried to navigate the support and have a 33 page document capturing my interactions, and calls.
I had an RMA - returned the device and replaced it with a "new" one as provided (it did not appear new based on the packaging). It worked for <24 hours before the same problem recurred
I've spent *hours* on the phone attempting to talk to technical support including one call that started at 09:34 and I finally gave up having been on hold for 99% of the time at 13:10. I spoke to a total of 2 people on that call for a total of 3+3+1+1+2 = 10 mins out of a total call time of 3 hrs and 36 mins. This btw is only one of multiple calls many >1 hours long mostly of waiting on hold.
* I've interacted with the online support system updating my case and told I will be called back - when they do I'm not available.
* I provided access to my calendar to book a mutually convenient time - they said they were unable to access the URL.
* I offered a window of time to call me back but was told days later the individual was not working and had only just received the message and told, and I quote " My shift starts at 10:00 PM - 7:00 AM (Eastern Time) "
I appreciate the intention of some on this forum to help and troubleshoot and I have tried much of this but the problem remains and I would not wish this experience on anyone. It crushed my network and consumed huge amounts of my time all to no avail.
The same point remains - for anyone considering this device are you willing to entrust your network to a device which could fail and bring your network down, randomly, for unknown periods of time and with no known method to fix or resolve (short of rebooting every device every 24 hours - and even that's uncertain). I know I would not
Another update— AmpliFi released an update and now it’s AWESOME! I’m getting a consistent 100+ Mbps all throughout my house and it’s no longer interfering with the baby monitor, so it seems their channel selection is much improved (this was cited in their release notes). Incidentally I bought the product right after they released an update that broke everything and people in the support forums were very unhappy, so my first experience with this product was not representative of the correct experience.
Still not as fast as Orbi but rock solid consistent connectivity and much better management. I think I’m finally ready to return the Orbi, will likely do that this week, along with the Linksys Velop which was a train wreck.
I did notice NETGEAR released a firmware update recently. Any word on whether that helped this particular issue?
@skandocious wrote: Another update— AmpliFi released an update and now it’s AWESOME! I’m getting a consistent 100+ Mbps all throughout my house and it’s no longer interfering with the baby monitor, so it seems their channel selection is much improved (this was cited in their release notes). Incidentally I bought the product right after they released an update that broke everything and people in the support forums were very unhappy, so my first experience with this product was not representative of the correct experience.
Still not as fast as Orbi but rock solid consistent connectivity and much better management. I think I’m finally ready to return the Orbi, will likely do that this week, along with the Linksys Velop which was a train wreck.
I did notice NETGEAR released a firmware update recently. Any word on whether that helped this particular issue?
That’s not helpful, I literally mentioned that I was aware of the updated release. Has anyone tested it for this issue in this thread? I’m not willing to unpack mine and set it all up again only to find out the issue is still there.
Several users say the new version works well for them in that thread. Might give it a read. Sounds like you've already moved on to something else so. I presume it might not. Good Luck.
@nvt that honesty underscores my whole experience with Orbi thus far. Everything feels half baked and kind of hacky... Comparitively the Amplifi system is so very polished and smooth in every way. I think Orbi could be a fantastic product after a couple more software iterations but I’m not willing to be a beta tester with something so important as home connectivity.
